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- cross-posted to:
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The Finnish company Jolla is back with the Linux-powered Jolla Phone. It’s being positioned as an antidote to the US-dominated smartphone status quo of Android and iOS.
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While SailfishOS seems neat, it’s worth noting that some components, like some drivers, the homescreen UI, the compositor, some QML components and the Android compatibility layer are closed source. The rest of the software stack seems to be based on open source components from desktop Linux. The package manager uses RPM.
Even if their software stack isn’t totally FOSS, I’m still happy to see a potential challenger to Google and Apple in the smartphone space. Duopolies suck.
I feel like the point was to get away from the Android/iOS duopoly, not to court open-source advocates… though it does sort of do that, using Linux.
I don’t disagree and I definitely trust a Finnish company founded by former Nokia engineers a lot more than Google or Apple. But I think there is a lot of overlap between both the “buy European” movement and Fediverse users and those who prefer open solutions wherever possible. A lot of those people would prefer a solution where the userland and/or kernel and/or SDK is completely open source. They will have to weigh their options based on the fact that while SailfishOS is more open than Android or iOS, it is not fully open source.
By the way, it is also worth noting that unlike Google, so far Jolla has been moving in the direction of open sourcing more components of their OS. No one can predict the future, though, and some people would prefer to avoid any possible future vendor lock-in.
Well even though I do think there’s value in that despite Sailfish being partially closed it’s still a valid criticism.
With Motorola going with GrapheneOS and Jolla coming back with a Linux phone, I wonder how Denmark will react. Will the Danish government make versions of Mit ID for these operating systems?
For those who don’t know, “nemkonto” is a centralised digital ID system in the Danish government to which all your things are tied. You use a security app called “Mit ID” to log into places that make use of your personal information.
Your bank requires your Mit ID, your doctor requires your Mit ID, your ISP requires your Mit ID. Every time you log into anything remotely official you are required to log in with Mit ID.
On Android it requires Google’s security services and a locked down phone to function. So rooting is not an option, as it takes away your ability to use your phone to simply… Exist… As a citizen.
You can get a code key device from the Kommune, but you can only use that to log into things through the Web browser of your PC. On your phone you are required to use the app, and if thr app doesn’t work then you’re simply not logging in. Something as basic as checking your bank balance becomes a major annoyance.
That sounds so dystopian and yet so many governments are moving towards similar ideas.
Re: the code device. All apps requiring MitID works perfectly fine on the phone without the app as far as I can tell. There’s no need to use the web browser of your PC. Source: I had the code device and a phone with e/os/
Finland had a similar system. It’s the only reason I can’t move over to graphene or others.
Not all Finnish banks require play services for their apps, if any. Mine works just fine on eOS. Don’t know about Mobiilivarmenne, if you’d rather use that
Is this a recent change?
I don’t know about play services, but a few years ago I received errors that the security of my device was compromised or something, if I installed a different OS, and couldn’t use banking apps.Edit: come to think of it, it wasn’t “a few” years, more like “many years” ago.
Might it be that you didn’t re-lock your bootloader, or so? But if this was many years ago, many things may well have progressed since. I wouldn’t know details of that time, just recently switched over from Apple.
I’ve felt the pain of the mitID strictness, it really sucks. But can’t you request the desktop version of a site om your phone when logging in and using the code key device?
The MitID keygen works on mobile browsers, it just has to be chromium based and all telemetry enabled. It is not a nice experience, but in a pinch it’s doable.
Ech… I don’t use Chromium browsers…
Yea it sucks, but that’s sadly how it is for most danish government sites. It’s almost like everything is hardcoded for chromium and anyone not using that can get fucked. That is at least my experience though I should mention that librewolf on Linux works flawlessly.
Most here would love to have a fully FOSS phone. However, Jolla is still an excellent and simple proposition for the vast majority. We need to wholeheartedly support this and other significant movement away from US spyware/ ransomware/adware.
My problem with it, is thats its even less open source than android is, even after all the enshittification. If they were serious with their anti big tech approach, they would open source it, then Sailfish OS would be a real alternative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzCMKbhK-EY
Pity about the pay-walled factory reset and the closed source software they use like drivers, homescreen UI, the compositor, some QML components and the Android compatibility layer
It wouldn’t bother me so much if they weren’t specifically positioning themselves as privacy and FOSS advocates
What. What do you mean pay-walled factory reset?!
In odd chance that you happened to forget your encryption password on old Jolla, the reset needed factory assistance, which cost some tens of dollars. So a nothingburger really, did not appear predatory, simply a bit lacking UX design.
Jolla crowdsourced a tablet in 2014, blew by their initial goal, then delayed and delayed and eventually canceled the project claiming they would try to offer refunds. They refunded half of the contributions of most of the backers and then pocketed the other half, over $1M. I don’t know if their new phone is anti-big-tech or not, and I’m all for alternatives to Android and iOS, but this is not a company I can trust.
I secured a spot and will get it hopefully in fall. It might not replace my xperia 1 II, but i hope it will be hold enough.
Fediverse is like “oh, I wish there would be some other option to phones apart from android and iOS!” When you show them there’s another option, all are going like “it’s fucking obsolete, it can’t even run android apps and it’s not cheap enough, I will use android and iOS because they are better! And reasonable priced.”
They are mostly different people. One group of people comments on their desire for something open when something closed is mentioned, and another group comments on the downsides of something open when it’s being discussed.
That’s not just the fediverse, sadly. That’s most of humanity. Everyone is complaining “Oh big tech is sooo bad I want to get away from those companies” but the second you suggest options they will say: “Oh no it’s too inconvenient”. Hell, you can get away from big tech today if you wanted to, but you want it to stay as convenient as it is. You can get a privacy respecting browser, install addons that block any tracking, get an old pixel, install graphene (via the extremely comfortable web installer that every dummy can use), install linux, use an alternative search engine like DDG or searxng and you’re like 80% done.
People like to complain about big tech. But they don’t want to do anything that inconveniences them. Online activism at it’s finest.
My problem with Sailfish is the UI is proprietary, which is a step back from Android. I also don’t think this phone uses a mainline kernel, which limits long-term support to whenever their chosen LTS kernel goes EOL.
What I want is a phone that has a fully functional mainline Linux kernel, which currently does not exist. It’d be even better if the primary bootloader was replacable, similar to how coreboot can be installed on some laptops.
It is very nice to see a phone with a removable battery and a microSD card slot, though.
I get what you mean, but I’m of the same sentiment: I don’t need 1TB of internal space nor to play Cyberpunk on the go, I just need a simple phone for calls, texts, GPS, bank and other lght tasks, and I can’t spend €650 for maybe half of those to work; it’s frankly too much.
Absolutely same, with one caveat… I want my phone to have the best possible camera I can get. …two caveats, I want to also keep my phone for as long as possible. If I use a phone for five years and it’s still fast and has a relatively nice camera after five years, 1200-1500USD is totally reasonable.
I didn’t even need to upgrade to THIS phone when my last one was five years old, but I wanted more space for pictures (I keep about 20k on there at a time)… and switching to 120hz for scrolling web sites also was a huge bonus
There is a reason it’s a duopoly, making a competing phone eco system to rival two of the wealthiest companies in the world is not easy. Microsoft tried but even they didn’t have enough money. People need apps, because companies want us to use their apps and there are only two app stores, one is walled off so you basically have to run Android apps or convince every company to make an app for your OS. I’m not wealthy so I only buy a phone every 8-10 years… if I can’t ensure I can do my banking shopping and entertainment on my phone I can’t buy it, and every banking/shopping/entertainment site is designed to be terrible on a phone so they can get you to install their app.
Microsoft tried but even they didn’t have enough money.
Money was not the issue. Timing and smarts were.
Timing is a given… the whole point is now there is a duopoly it’s impossible to compete.
Windows Phone OS was excellent, smooth, efficient and relatively intuitive with flagship models competing with Google and Apple.
The problem was getting apps created for the App Store with the lowest market share. The phone sector was losing money, it did that for years with no great improvement in market share. The call was made entirely because Microsoft can’t have a red mark on their balance sheet for that long without investors getting annoyed.
It was the money.
The problem was getting apps created for the App Store with the lowest market share.
And why was there such a poor app ecosystem and low market share? Because Android and iOS had already cornered the market before Microsoft decided in late 2010 (!) to make a half-assed attempt at entering the market. And if you’re so late to the game, you must at least do it smartly and offer features the others don’t. Microsoft did not, and thus had to back off eventually.
So if you look closely, it was timing and smarts.
I wouldn’t call $7.6 billion half-assed, but maybe that’s just me.
I can throw $100 billion at a problem and still have a half-assed strategy, causing the money to burn up in the process. (I’d really love try this out, btw. I’m just $100 billion short.)
Will the Android Signal client work on it, or does getting one involve forfeiting any means of communication with people who don’t know what a XMPP server is?
There is an unofficial native client for Signal called Whisperfish.
am statesian. should i be pronuncing this holla (with a rolled l) or yoya or jola or i’m sure i can think up something to make the linguists on here scream like ghøghə
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Will it run my bank apps? That’s all I care about, really.
I hope it won’t run bank apps. When my bank tries to shut down their website and force me onto a smartphone (which is inherently not a smart move for privacy and security), I want to be able to show them that their app won’t run on my linux phone so there is pressure to keep the website running.
Fuck phone banking. Let’s have some separation of church and state.
boot lickers who want to run corporate spyware → Android or iOS
freedom seekers who want to keep their dignity and autonomy → linuxWorth noting that banks deliberately block alternative platforms. Some detect whether they are running in an emulator and refuse to run. And “emulator” is very loose. I saw a bank app refuse to run on a laptop that natively ran Android.
It’s a bit hit and miss. Some work, some don’t. There’s a topic about it on the Sailfish forums.
Is it privacy friendly ? I don’t care if it is Eu product or not ,
Google will not spy on you and most of the code is open source. I’m not sure if it has been audited.
So, as an American (unfortunately) is there a way to get one of these?
Move here, no downsides
Anyone have experience with these? Specifically looking for how “drop in and replace” it is compared to GrapheneOS.
I’d love to give it a shot, but i worry a bunch of my daily use apps won’t work. I’m working to replace a bunch of the more big tech ones (Spotify, Audible, etc), but would also need to be sure Signal and HomeAssistant work seamlessly.
You can use android app directly using appsupport: https://jolla.com/appsupport
This still leaves the question of compatibility. Graphene also has issues with some nasty banking apps.
Murica ?
Although I did not experience it yet (Unicredit customer), many banks in Europe implement strict Play Integrity requirements.
I see you’re Italian as well. As far as you know, does the Poste app have that problem?
I do not run apps for services that don’t require it.
I use PosteID with SMS verification. And anyway, Italy is going to transition from this messy system to CIE / EUid.Oh well, at least they seem to offer it. Good news, i’m planning on buying a Linux phone next.
