- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or # to comment.
While piece leads with depravity of school attack, and I’d add hospitals and leadership assassination, understand the geopolitics that the US is ruled by Israel first mandate, and Israel wants only destruction. Not a surrender and peace. Just as a nuclear deal with Iran would have entitled it to an opinion on Israel actions. Cruelty and illegality is the insurance to guarantee a unified angry Iran who’se only choice is to fight back. This is 100% the plan, and all idiocy of not understanding a plan is idiocy looking at the US to promote some humanist/liberal peace outcome instead of serving Israel’s demonism.
All US allies have their political capital and media as atlanticist/zionist supremacist propagandizers. As such, they are more likely to equivocate Iran’s self defense actions instead of strong condemnation of Zionist demonism, and threatening of rupturing of ties with Zionist allies to motivate a quick ceasefire. Waiting for Atlanticist/Zionist supremacist media to help sell demonism to the people of US colonies, is simply gaslighting concerns about demonic evil that will be applied to them all directly in the future.
Wtf is “demonism”?
while a specific demarcation line between human selfishness and demonism is fluid within personal conscience, most experts might agree that wanton mass murder and destruction for purposes of facilitating less opposition to future mass murder and destruction for wanton theft of the land of the murdered, can cross the lines of civilized human-considerate policy discussions, such that a demonic label is unanimously appropriate.
The kinds of atrocities you describe are violent imperialist and colonial policies. The word “demonic” is dehumanizing religious language used by nutjobs, bible-thumpers and MAGAts. It is especially problematic when used to describe a jewish institution (even if that institution is a genocidal apartheid state), due to the long tradition of antisemitism in Canada (we are both users at lemmy.ca I see) and the west in general.
Religious supremacism is used to justify the wanton murder and destruction to steal lands. Just because Zionaziism is a core tenet of some Jews, the orthodox reject the state as being agents of God/Judaism, and there are other jews who either respect the boundaries of civilization, oppose Zionism entirely, or focus on communal support. Nevermind, demonic Ashkenazi pig fuckers including themselves as semitic people to deflect from criticism of Zionaziism.
Property rights are foundation of civilization. Religious supremacism overriding foundational civilization principles must be labelled demonism. If there is a sentimental/religious value to land, then go ahead and buy or pray for it. That is only option consistent with humanism and civilization. Otherwise, why can’t I murder my neighbour and take his house while calling it God’s command to me? God telling me to do it last night, is not any less valid than using latin instead of greek translations of people who told history 4000 years before their time.
Normalizing Zionist supremacism with every lie their controlled media/politicians tell us is a core problem.
There is a whole bunch of antisemitic and racist language in your response, and I’m not going to follow you down that rabbit hole.
The only possible imagination of anti-semitism when criticizing Zionist supremacist demonism is that you view all jews as demonic.
Not interested in antisemitic gaslighting. This conversation ends here.
Perhaps one of the most pointless wars in recent memory.
A pointless war is a war with no goals. All wars has goals. This one is sbout creating a failed state for the usa to conquest easier the ressources and for israel to expand colonization
Most the the recent pointless wars all have one thing in common.
Religion + authoritarianism
And dat black, sticky-icky!
Land taken and extended time period is war. Not splitting hairs here, but a few strikes to avoid discussing genocide or the Epstein files, does not a war make.
American internal politics are not the universal standard. The Iranian foreign minister has called it a war: https://www.wionews.com/world/-us-entered-war-on-behalf-of-israel-iran-slams-rubio-s-justification-of-pre-emptive-attack-1772524933052
I would assume he knows what he’s talking about.
Not a war, but they keep using that word. Journalism is dead
Is there no war in Ukraine either? Russia is quite specific to talk their “special military operation” there anything but a war.
Iran’s government needed toppling, but the ends do not justify the means. How you do something is just as important as what you’re doing, and this is being done in a horrible, unjustifiable way for deeply nefarious reasons, and the fact that some sort of good may come of it (though that remains yet to be seen) does not excuse the fact that most of it is really, really bad.
What is this imperialist trash doing in an ostensibly “progressive” com?
Settle down. We need to have principles to live together in a global society. Moral relativism will get us nowhere and rampant individualism is a big reason why capitalism inevitably leads back to authoritarianism. Under capitalism the ends always justify the means.
A progressive world is one in which we have international law and a functioning UN that actually gives a shit about human rights, dignity, and freedoms. That should mean liberating those under oppressive regimes.
I hate nobody in this world more than Trump right now, but the one thing he gets right by accident is that relying on the US to do the dirty work of foreign intervention was never the right move.
The UN collectively should have liberated Iran years ago, and stepped in to keep Afghanistan out of Taliban hands as the US left, and more. These nations screw over their people constantly and they clearly couldn’t care less about their neighbors either - case in point Iran attacking its natural allies.
We should work together as a global order to uplift everyone.
With that said, there should be sanctions on the US for the shit they’re doing right now, and Israel too of course. For the same reasons. International law doesn’t mean anything if it’s just might is right.
The UN has no executive power. You will still rely on countries with all type of bad motivations that do not serve the iranian population
We need to have principles to live together in a global society. Moral relativism will get us nowhere
I have principles, imperialist; I’m not the one advocating for the West to ignore international law and national sovereignty. “The West should impose it’s tyrannical will on the global South” is not a principle, it’s just chauvanism.
A progressive world is one in which we have international law and a functioning UN that actually gives a shit about human rights, dignity, and freedoms. That should mean liberating those under oppressive regimes.
“International law is when the West gets to ignore international law.”
The dirty work of foreign intervention
Damn, you sure dropped your pretense off caring about international law real fast.
The UN collectively should have liberated Iran years ago, and stepped in to keep Afghanistan out of Taliban hands as the US left, and more.
“The UN should have done what western chauvanists want it to!”
Ok, so again, you don’t give a shit about international law, you just want the West to enforce it’s will. Notice how you don’t suggest the UN should “liberate” (read: destroy) the actual worst abusers in the world, Israel and the US, just their enemies. The US occupying Afghanistan is fine, but the UN should only intervene if they leave, apparently.
These nations screw over their people constantly and they clearly couldn’t care less about their neighbors either.
Fuck you; your nations are infinitely worse.
case in point Iran attacking its natural allies.
“How dare Iran attack our military bases when we use them to launch an illegal war of aggression against them!”
Fuck off. Iran is following international law, you aren’t.
We should work together as a global order to uplift everyone.
Uplift yourself you bloodthirsty savages. This is just warmed over colonialist arguments from the 1800s.
With that said, there should be sanctions on the US for the shit they’re doing right now, and Israel too of course.
You mean the UN should be invading them to institute regime change right? Just as it should be doing for all the EU countries backing the most brutal genocide of the century? Oh no, of course not. You only believe the West has that right. Because you’re a chauvanist who doesn’t believe in international law.
International law doesn’t mean anything if it’s just might is right.
It also doesn’t mean anything when it’s just a way for white supremacist westerners like you to justify brutally dominating the rest of the world.
@[email protected] l, seriously, why do we have to have this imperialist trash here?
Chill. Iran funds proxy militias. That’s not a violation of international law?
Everyone’s fucking ignoring international law in the name of whatever selfish ideology. If you’re going to assume my call for a principled approach to international foreign policy is just an excuse for the evils I want to solve… Well fuck mate. Let’s just forget about giving any kinds of shit about anyone but ourselves.
Is that the world you want to live in?
Chill
No, fuck you. People shouldn’t be “chill” in the face of mass slaughter.
Iran funds proxy militias. That’s not a violation of international law?
No. It isn’t. And you were literally advocating for the funding of militias in Iran. Again, you don’t give a shit about international law. You certainly aren’t advocating for invading and overthrowing every nation that funds foreign military groups.
Everyone’s fucking ignoring international law in the name of whatever selfish ideology.
No. You are, and you’re justifying it to yourself by assuming everyone else does it.
If you’re going to assume my call for a principled approach to international foreign policy
You’re not calling for a principled approach to international foreign policy. You’re calling for western domination of the global South.
Let’s just forget about giving any kinds of shit about anyone but ourselves. Is that the world you want to live in
Mate, that’s the world you’re advocating for, chauvanist prick. I’m advocating for a world where imperialist crackers are actually bound by the same international law as the rest of us.
You’re being so unnecessarily abrasive and insulting. You’re totally misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I’m saying. This is a waste of time.
I’m happy you’re passionate. I’m not your enemy. We both probably vote progressive. If you want to have a conversation take a step back and actually read what I wrote.
I’m asking for a coalition of likeminded nations to work together to topple oppressive regimes - call it the UN and include everyone. Ideally, do it non-militarily, but militarily if necessary.
That’s what Iran needs and wants. Not whatever the fuck Israel and the US are doing on their own. That’s wrong, and it’s going to end badly for everyone. On that I hope we can agree.
You’re being so unnecessarily abrasive and insulting.
I’ve witnessed too much horror at this point to care about the being civil with imperialist.
You’re totally misunderstanding or misrepresenting what I’m saying. This is a waste of time.
No, I’m just cutting through the euphemism and double standards. It’s only a waste of time because you hold your beliefs as a matter of faith and will never reexamine them.
I’m not your enemy.
Yes you are.
We both probably vote progressive.
So you don’t vote Democrat?
If you want to have a conversation take a step back and actually read what I wrote.
I read it. Read it well enough to understand what you were saying.
I’m asking for a coalition of likeminded nations to work together to topple oppressive regimes
So, Western imperialism. Because, let’s be honest, you sure as hell aren’t calling for a coalition of China, Russia, and India to common carpet bomb Germany. Or Sudan, Burkina Faso, and South Africa to bomb South Korea. You’re just talking about western countries and their vessels overthrowing anyone not bowing to control by billionaire pedophiles. Hell. You couldn’t even bring yourself for the overthrow of the most insane and evil country on the planet, Israel. Just “sanctions”
call it the UN and include everyone.
Except for the countries you want to overthrow, of course.
That’s what Iran needs and wants
Western chauvanists just love to tell other people what they want and need, all while reducing them to an undifferentiated hive mind with no diversity of thought themselves. You’re a white supremacist, with no interest in letting the untermensch speak make their own decisions.
Not whatever the fuck Israel and the US are doing on their own.
How is what the US and Israel are doing any different from what you propose?
That’s wrong, and it’s going to end badly for everyone. On that I hope we can agree.
No, because your only objection to it seems to be procedural: that they’re doing a sloppy job of it. You’ve already said that you want the Epstein coalition to act as world police.
Iran’s government needed toppling
by whom?
… that’s exactly what I meant. Did you… not read the rest of the comment? What did you think I meant by “the ends do not justify the means?” The means include who did it, and how. I am saying they are not justified.
I don’t see who you think should do be the one to do the toppling, it’s a sincere question
The Iranian people, ultimately. Even if they will need outside help achieving it, I believe it still needs to be led by them, it needs to be both be conducted in a way and ultimately result in something the Iranian people consent to, and it needs to be done in good faith, not transactionally, and preferably with substantial international consensus. I don’t think good faith was even in the same timezone with what is happening here, and any possibility of consensus is weak and almost entirely post-hoc. I think genuine criticism is deserved for why it hasn’t happened before now, and even for why this kind of intervention became necessary in the first place, and maybe this is a better state than it has previously been in, but again, those ends still do not justify the means. The means have been wrong before this, and the new means are also wrong. None of it is justified, and none of it will justify the current situation or any of the places the current situation is going. I am not going to give it a “pass” just because it might end up in a better situation.
What actions by outisde helpers do you purpose?
I am not an Iranian person, I don’t get to make proposals for them, nor do I want to. Go ask them. I won’t propose a right answer. I don’t know if there is one. But I can tell you with confidence that this answer is not right, and I am quite certain the Iranian people didn’t ask for what they’re equally certainly going to get.
Western chauvanists always treat non-western populations as an undifferentiated hive mind.
