Hungary will block a planned 90-billion-euro (US$106-billion) European Union loan to Ukraine until the flow of Russian oil through the Druzhba pipeline resumes, Hungary’s foreign minister said.
removing privileges and voting rights, while Hungary is investigated for compliance of EU regulations
It’s not that easy. This can be abused. Countries joined because the EU had limited power.
The US has broken the power of its states by threatening to withhold federal funding. The EU is starting to copy that. How does the EU make sure that we don’t copy Trump, too?
False equivalence. EU is not controlled by a single president, for such actions there would have to be a near unanimous agreement among the other member states.
So the comparison would be if for instance 45 states agreed to take away privileges from one state in USA, instead of just 1 president, that may not even have won by a majority vote.
There’s a difference between a decision made in a democracy that respect minorities (EU), and a decision made by a president that is granted excessive powers in a dysfunctional democracy.
That’s how the US started. Still, legally, the president cannot change laws. It was normalized under Obama to get around this with executive orders.
It’s a development. If we step on that slippery slope, we should know in advance that we stop before it is too late. And above all, we should not assume that it can’t happen in the EU.
Stephen Grover Cleveland (March 18, 1837 – June 24, 1908) was the 22nd and 24th president of the United States, serving from 1885 to 1889 and from 1893 to 1897.
I fell for that propaganda. The executive orders were a talking point, I looked it up. Thanks for all the links.
However, that only changes the extend to which democrats have been digging their own grave. The EU still doesn’t convince me that we are not on the same trajectory towards a totalitarian government as the US. The dishonesty about surveillance alone lets me believe that the EU shouldn’t get too much power to economically force countries.
The EU still doesn’t convince me that we are not on the same trajectory
It’s OK to be vigilant, but it shouldn’t stop us from doing something that is necessary. And as I see it, it is necessary to put Hungary and Slovakia on pause.
Because they are actively working against clear EU interests, and they are working against democracy. And that is decidedly against the ideals of EU, they are also working against human rights which is also contrary to the regulation of EU.
If this was the USA, the Hungarian and Slovakian governments could probably be charged with treason!
That member countries work withing EU regulation which include human rights is a requirement! Not an option!
This is way way more than just political disagreement, Slovakia and Hungary are working openly for the enemy.
None of us want EU to become a totalitarian shithole, but failing to observe and uphold the rules, is EXACTLY what caused it for USA.
So as I see it, you are viewing this whole scenario upside down. Failing to act against totalitarianism rising in EU like in Hungary, is what will increase the risk of EU becoming more totalitarian. We need to act against it, and your slippery slope argument, that upholding Hungary to what they agreed to when becoming members, has no basis in the political facts.
However warning against totalitarianism is a VERY valid warning. You just seem to confuse how to stop it, with making it worse.
Because they are actively working against clear EU interests
Which could be good if the EU works for its elite and not its citizens.
and they are working against democracy.
In which way? They have rules for media ownership that give Orban control but also prevents the usual foreign influence to an extend. Is there a clear threat? I think there is a grey zone that depends on which team one supports.
And that is decidedly against the ideals of EU,
Are the ideals of the EU the same as the EU? I fear that people fight for the ideals ‘abroad’ while the EU takes away their freedom at home.
they are also working against human rights
In that regard, ‘they’ could also reference the EU.
To me the human trafficking stands out but otherwise it looks to me like the usual hybrid war where marginalized groups are used to change the ruling class.
The Hungarian government has been accused by Human Rights Watch of circumventing the separation of powers and governing through an increasingly powerful executive.
Which is funny because the EU is using the commission’s executive power to shut down media with Russian influence without a trial.
It’s not that easy. This can be abused. Countries joined because the EU had limited power.
The US has broken the power of its states by threatening to withhold federal funding. The EU is starting to copy that. How does the EU make sure that we don’t copy Trump, too?
False equivalence. EU is not controlled by a single president, for such actions there would have to be a near unanimous agreement among the other member states.
So the comparison would be if for instance 45 states agreed to take away privileges from one state in USA, instead of just 1 president, that may not even have won by a majority vote.
There’s a difference between a decision made in a democracy that respect minorities (EU), and a decision made by a president that is granted excessive powers in a dysfunctional democracy.
That’s how the US started. Still, legally, the president cannot change laws. It was normalized under Obama to get around this with executive orders.
It’s a development. If we step on that slippery slope, we should know in advance that we stop before it is too late. And above all, we should not assume that it can’t happen in the EU.
Obama made the least number of executive orders of any president for more than a century. So I seriously doubt he normalized them in any regard.
Also a slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
The EU was created as an economic union with the intention to create a political union. It’s a slippery slope by design.
Interesting. I only remember democrats arguing that Obama had to use the orders because republicans were blocking congress.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/01/23/obama-executive-orders/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Cleveland
I fell for that propaganda. The executive orders were a talking point, I looked it up. Thanks for all the links.
However, that only changes the extend to which democrats have been digging their own grave. The EU still doesn’t convince me that we are not on the same trajectory towards a totalitarian government as the US. The dishonesty about surveillance alone lets me believe that the EU shouldn’t get too much power to economically force countries.
It’s OK to be vigilant, but it shouldn’t stop us from doing something that is necessary. And as I see it, it is necessary to put Hungary and Slovakia on pause.
Because they are actively working against clear EU interests, and they are working against democracy. And that is decidedly against the ideals of EU, they are also working against human rights which is also contrary to the regulation of EU.
If this was the USA, the Hungarian and Slovakian governments could probably be charged with treason!
That member countries work withing EU regulation which include human rights is a requirement! Not an option!
This is way way more than just political disagreement, Slovakia and Hungary are working openly for the enemy.
None of us want EU to become a totalitarian shithole, but failing to observe and uphold the rules, is EXACTLY what caused it for USA.
So as I see it, you are viewing this whole scenario upside down. Failing to act against totalitarianism rising in EU like in Hungary, is what will increase the risk of EU becoming more totalitarian. We need to act against it, and your slippery slope argument, that upholding Hungary to what they agreed to when becoming members, has no basis in the political facts.
However warning against totalitarianism is a VERY valid warning. You just seem to confuse how to stop it, with making it worse.
Which could be good if the EU works for its elite and not its citizens.
In which way? They have rules for media ownership that give Orban control but also prevents the usual foreign influence to an extend. Is there a clear threat? I think there is a grey zone that depends on which team one supports.
Are the ideals of the EU the same as the EU? I fear that people fight for the ideals ‘abroad’ while the EU takes away their freedom at home.
In that regard, ‘they’ could also reference the EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Hungary
To me the human trafficking stands out but otherwise it looks to me like the usual hybrid war where marginalized groups are used to change the ruling class.
Which is funny because the EU is using the commission’s executive power to shut down media with Russian influence without a trial.
https://feddit.org/post/26084654