Context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzRf8B-oDk

Would it be possible to run mpv and a browser directly on hardware somehow? Perhaps in an environment that doesn’t classify as an operating system according to the definition in those California codes?

I know that an operating system distributes workloads and facilitates communication between various hardware components, but would it be possible to build a Linux kernel that is “only” an interface to the CPU, a GPU, a sound card and a keyboard? One that can take commands to run for instance a browser[1] and mpv? Having the user manually - through commands of physical switches - handle the inter component communication? Or perhaps by being a kernel it already falls under the definition of an OS?

I’m just spitballing here. Barely know what I’m talking about, so please enlighten me! :D

  1. Nowadays, a browser feels like a container that can run most things a physical computer would: stream media, serve as a word processor, play simple games, what have you. ↩︎

  • Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world
    1·
    17 days ago

    What you’re talking about would be called running a browser on “bare metal.” The OS is typically on charge of resource management between the various tasks. Access to the processor, storage, screen, input devices, sound, network. The os is a layer that mediates these devices. On bare metal you have to do ALL of that.

    I’ve seen some interest in bare metal web servers in the past which some believe to be more secure. But I don’t think I’ve seen browsers on bare metal. There’s so much browsers need to do anymore. But anyways, bare metal would be the search terms you want to start using.

    Edit: “bare metal” seems to have a newer usage for servers, so the papers I found were calling it “Bare PC.” Example: https://doi.org/10.1109/HPCC.2009.34

    • SteveTech@aussie.zone
      0·
      17 days ago

      The os is a layer that mediates these devices.

      The OS doesn’t just mediate the devices, it also provides a consistent interface for software to talk to the hardware. E.g. software doesn’t care if you’re using a USB or PS/2 keyboard, the operating system handles that.

      I’ve seen some interest in bare metal web servers

      Usually in the context of servers, bare metal means it’s not running in a VM, and you are dedicated to the hardware. E.g. one server may otherwise be running multiple customers all isolated from each other using VMs, with bare metal servers you are the only customer using the hardware. They’re supposedly more secure as there isn’t another customer that could use some VM escape vulnerability and read your data. It’s nothing to do with whether you are running an OS or not (although no OS is very not practical on production servers).

      • Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world
        1·
        17 days ago

        That’s a good point about what the OS provides. I come from an embedded context, so often RTOS are not much more than a kernel that’s handling some basic threads and processor access. There was a really interesting talk at USENIX a few years ago (Usenix 21 keynote with Timothy Roscoe, I just looked it up) that was basically saying that a modern OS like linux, isn’t even accessing hardware and is just an OS in a system of OSs on a computer.

        So you are not wrong about what you are calling bare metal, but that usage is more popular at the moment, but the older meaning of bare metal actually just means “no OS.” It’s still very common in embedded world. They are the same words, but do have different meanings.

        I cannot find it at the moment, but about 10 years ago I had found a guy at Tufts (I think) who was publishing about actual bare metal (no os) single process machines that would run a server with nothing else. It was supposed to be helpful for security reasons. It was definitely whacky. I cannot find it because the server-farm usage of bare metal has taken over :(

        [Bare-Metal (redirect on wiki)[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bare_metal ]

        I do now see that “bare metal server” is not going to be the right search term. Perhaps bare metal computing? I’m not sure. But what I am talking about pre-dates virtualization.

        Edit: For servers, it seems the papers are calling it “Bare PC” Example: https://doi.org/10.1109/HPCC.2009.34

        • SteveTech@aussie.zone
          1·
          15 days ago

          There was a really interesting talk at USENIX a few years ago (Usenix 21 keynote with Timothy Roscoe

          Thanks for this!

          So you are not wrong about what you are calling bare metal, but that usage is more popular at the moment, but the older meaning of bare metal actually just means “no OS.” It’s still very common in embedded world.

          Oh yeah I’m aware and I wasn’t disputing you, I just wanted to point out that in the context of servers that definition is quite ambiguous. But I did know what you meant.

          For servers, it seems the papers are calling it “Bare PC” Example: https://doi.org/10.1109/HPCC.2009.34

          This was also quite interesting and I’m actually surprised IIS did as well as it did. I’m actually looking for thesis ideas so I’ll add this to my list and potentially see how much things have changed 17 years later.