QatarEnergy, the world’s largest producer of natural gas, just got bombed.

    • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      There’s really nothing wrong with generating hydrogen when power costs are negative.

      Except that only happens like 500 hours a year.

      And hydrogen will leak from any tank.

      And it turns metal brittle.

      And I wouldn’t trust my neighbor with a propane tank, let alone hydrogen.

      And its nearly impossible to transport through existing infrastructure.

      But other than that, its great!

      • Hypx@piefed.social
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        1 day ago

        Most of your claims are just climate change denial arguments. Many of them were directly made up by the fossil fuel industry.

      • grue@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        You forgot about the part where the possibility of generating hydrogen cleanly from electricity later is used as an excuse to build infrastructure and fuel-cell cars for it now, even though hydrogen now is dirty hydrogen produced by cracking fossil fuels.

        I have no confidence that the second phase of switching to electrolysis would actually happen, and that “the hydrogen economy” isn’t just a greenwashing scam perpetrated by natural gas producers.

    • runblack@feddit.org
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      3 days ago

      I always love the stupidity of this idea: You were able to generate pure hydrogen at high costs… Now what should we do with it? Well lets just do what we did since the middle ages and burn it!

      • WoodScientist@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Craziest implementation? Burn the hydrogen in your home. But not in a furnace. Burn it in a mechanical combustion-powered heat pump!😁

        • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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          2 days ago

          If you’re launching a rocket, sure. If cost or difficulty matters in any way compared to raw mass, not really.

          It was talked about for cars where density kinda matters, but you could put them in a fuel cell that way instead of just burning it, and I’m not sure if it was ever anywhere close to economical.

          The cost probably will go down, and with any luck the cost of polluting will go up, but electricity is going to be more practical for most things.

          • Hypx@piefed.social
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            1 day ago

            Electricity has gotten dramatically more expensive too. It is no panacea. In all likelihood, most of transportation will shift over to either green fuels (e-fuels) or hydrogen. Those are one-to-one replacements for fossil fuels.

            • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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              1 day ago

              I mean, to make e-fuel you still need the e (which stands for electricity). It’s ~guaranteed to have lower round-trip efficiency and higher cost in a car than just a battery. Ditto for green hydrogen. Theoretically blue hydrogen or white hydrogen could be used instead, but it’s not certain how much white hydrogen there is, and blue hydrogen needs carbon capture and storage which will add a lot to the cost.

              Gas generators are pretty much the same as ever, while renewables have gotten much cheaper than them. If your power bill went up, it’s some local issue doing it.

              (Air-breathing aviation is the other application I didn’t mention. Battery planes work but not well, so it’s closer to rockets. I don’t know if anyone has tried hydrogen, but that’s where e-fuel comes up a lot)

              • Hypx@piefed.social
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                1 day ago

                Round-trip efficiency is not that important. If it really was as important as claimed, we wouldn’t be talking about cars at all. It would all be about bikes, buses, trains, walkable neighborhoods, etc., instead. But in the real world, we will need to accept less-than-perfect solutions. So as long as the idea is green, it should be tolerated.

                We also have far more renewable energy available to us than we could ever hope to use. It is orders of magnitude more plentiful than fossil fuel energy. As a result, there will be an overabundance of green energy in the long run. It is fine to use that excess of energy to make stuff e-fuels or hydrogen.

                • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
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                  1 day ago

                  Okay, but then why not just go with battery cars? You’re the only person I’ve heard say hydrogen cars will make a comeback, if that is what you’re saying.

                  • spidermanchild@sh.itjust.works
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                    19 hours ago

                    Hydrogen cars are dead and EVs won already. This pro hydrogen position has only ever benefited the fossil industry, and is laguhable considering the state of the industry in 2026 (gestures broadly at China). Their arguments are simply disingenuous (e.g. obviously efficiency doesn’t matter because bikes are more efficient than cars, so let’s all agree to use inefficient cars). Hydrogen will be a thing for some industries, but not cars.

                  • Hypx@piefed.social
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                    1 day ago

                    I did not say you can’t have battery cars. It is just a limited technology and would likely shrink to a niche market without subsidies.

      • da_cow (she/her)@feddit.org
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        3 days ago

        Well, there are useful appliances for hydrogen, where you just burn it. Burning it to heat your own home isnt one if them.