Thousands of Southern Baptists overwhelmingly voted Wednesday to advance a formal ban on women pastors in the nation’s largest Protestant denomination, sending a clear message that men alone should preach to these conservative evangelical congregations.
While driving one day in Toronto, I accidentally tuned the radio to a US based “Christian” radio station. It was absolutely horrifying. There was nothing about Jesus AT ALL and a lot of “armour of god” and “defend yourself against enemies of the faith” and “build the empire of God’s faithful here on earth”.
Batshit crazy terrorist shit.
and yet he never once said “hey, you know what? free your fucking slaves”. or “Hey, you know what? your daughters? they’re people, too. Don’t sell them as sex slaves.” or “hey, you know what? ten year olds are too young to marry. don’t be a fucking creep.”
seems he has a vastly different understanding of who a “neighbor” is than I do today.
This 1000%. So fucking tired of Christian apologists pretending that “no, all that bad stuff was the Old Testament, Jesus was actually pretty much a leftist”.
Fuck off. He said himself that not one iota of that law will change, so the “new covenant” shit is just bullshit cope.
All he had to do was be like, “hey guys, how about we don’t own people as property,” but apparently that’s just too much.
Instead, he’ll just talk about how the rules in the OT still apply. Rules that literally include guidelines for how to properly rape and beat the shit out of your slaves.
You can either try to meet people halfway, or you can be hostile to people. See which one works out better for you. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say not the later.
Why would you meet people who think a book that says slavery is OK and gay people should be stoned to death halfway?
Yes, the bible also says good things. That is an objective fact. But if I were to publish a book that tells people that we should love one another and also that christians should be stoned to death, would you meet me halfway?
You don’t have to do anything, but you’re not going to make a lot of progress being actively hostile to people.
That a hyper focused point that seems based on a misunderstanding. I’m pretty much anti-theist myself at this point but I got that way by actually reading the religious texts and doctrines. Read a few different translations of the new test. Jesus says a lot of one off shit, more than a little is contradictory (because “Jesus” is most likely an amalgamation of a few different messianic cult leaders, they were all over at the time) but the main thing he’s consistent with is treating everyone the way you want them to treat you. He never said except the slaves, and yes I know the bit you’re referring to and it’s a smidge disingenuous in context. Either way, that main golden rule is the most consistent bit of preaching the man Jesus did, and even though I’m pretty sure the guy didn’t actually exist as a single individual it’s a solid bit of advice. Ick, I feel kinda gross defending religion. Ugh.
In their cultural context, that wouldn’t be that far outside the norm. The notion that there’s this magical line at 16-18 (in the US, depending on the state - possibly lower if the older partner is close in age or if they are married) is a 20th century invention. So, a guy from a text about 2000 years ago not expressing views on age and sexuality that were invented less than a hundred years ago is not exactly shocking.
Before the industrial revolution, children were often treated like smaller adults. Childhood was much shorter than nowadays and adolescence basically wasn’t a thing culturally for the vast majority of history.
According to researchers of Christianity, Mary would have been around 12 to 14. And obviously there would have been a massive power imbalance between her and a deity. So by modern standards, Mary could not consent and was sexually abused. And then of course he left her to raise Jesus, his bastard child. All Christians essentially worship a child rapist. I’m not religious, but I like to think that god hasn’t returned because the other gods have him serving time.
So, like. That’s totally unsurprising.
Fascism keeps cropping up in Christianity because it’s an inherently fascist in nature. Keep in mind jeebus claimed to be the Jewish messiah who was supposed to be a king, and lead the people of Judah back into religious purity, rise up against the oppressors and defeat all the other kingdoms in their small little version of the world… and enslave them.
To this, Jeebus added the whole “I’m going to throw everyone I don’t like into a pit of fire for the rest of eternity while everyone else glazes me and gives me blowjobs”
The idea that Jesus was somehow peaceful is the crazy shit.
I’m an atheist and fiercely anti-religion, but I was raised with a certain Christian education and I don’t remember anything resembling this about Jesus. Only that he said he was the son of God. Nothing about rising up against people, defeating them and enslaving them.
His message was to have some fucking empathy and stop hating each other for once.
I hope this sarcasm
Then the people giving you that certain education either lied to you or never read the damn Bible.
Am in paraphrasing it? Absolutely. But the only peace Jesus was going to bring was the same kind of “peace” palpatine brought the empire.
As for throwing people into eternal torture, that’s just an honest reading of his words in the New Testament.
Did you read it? Because I did. For shits n giggles. Or to actually see what the fuss was all about. And I can confidently say that you’re way off.
You either didn’t read all of it. or you didn’t understand it. Are there parts where things sound nice and kind and gentle? sure. But even Hitler occasionally advocated for social responsibility and communal welfare and I don’t think anyone here would disagree on how fucking evil Hitler was. Don’t just read the nice, lovey-dovey parts like “love your neighbor” and ignore the fact that Jesus literally had more to say about paying fucking taxes than slavery and saw people selling animals for sacrifice outside the temple and got pissed off despite slavery being- in my mind at least- far worse an institution and also a thing he’d have encountered near daily.
Lets start with an easy one: Mathew 28:18-20.
Theocratic Authoritarianism. Weee.
And what did jesus teach them? the law of Moses (Mathew 5:17-20:
So if you don’t obey the shit he taught…you’re not getting into heaven. Where do people who don’t go to heaven go? Hell. Fire. eternal torture.
“well yeah, but they’re awful people…” you might say… yeah. Awful people who… wear blended fabrics and eat pork or shellfish or, uh. stuff… I mean there’s worse there. Like people who don’t stone unruly children
the authoritarian nature of Jesus is self-apparent, and the consequences of ignoring anything are fucking psychotic… And lets be clear: the thing Jesus claimed to “fulfill” was the messianic prophecies
according to the messianic prophecies, jesus would have been expected to:
*At the time of Jesus in the early first century, jews understood the Roman occupation in the context of the exilic period. which they understood to have been a punishment for breaking the mosaic covenant. After the exile is over, they’re allowed to go back and such like. Then the romans come along, kick their ass in war, and oppress the shit out of everyone around there. There’s a sort of angst against the Pharisees who taught adherence to something called the Oral Law, or the Tradition of the Elders, which is a sort of updated version of the “written” law. Some things were dropped (stoning children for disobedience was severely restricted), some things were added (ritual cleansing of hands before eating,). you can see some of that in Mark 7 when Jesus was beefing with Pharisees and their followers. Jesus and people of that bend see it as punishment for stepping away- because in their Iron Age understanding, the only reason their all-powerful god would allow that is if it was angry with them for something… and uh… go read Deuteronomy 28.
as far as my claims about the Messiah being a military leader… he’s supposed to bring “security” to Israel… defeat their oppressors, and such like that only happens with a military campaign. for example, Zechariah 14. (i’m snipping the unimportant bits.)
As for the rest of us being enslaved? yeah. That’s because of how the ancient israelites were instructed- by god- to prosecute a war. (Deut 20, again, kinda reformating it.)
Is it really so surprising that christian nationalists (and Israelis,) are so cool with genocide? I mean. really. And I know, you’re brain is probably hissing and screaming right now. something like “that was just for coming into the Promised land”… but there’s also the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15(centuries after the offense, by the way. which. uh. didn’t actually happen.), the Midianites in Numbers 31, too. Part of it, is that this is just how war was conducted. Everybody, not just the Israelites, were genocidal assholes that would enslave entire populations.
And Jesus taught all of that.
Or more directly, are the words of Jesus, in mat 10:28: “Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear the one who can destroy both soul and body in hell” not the the words of a psychotic fucker and a threat. Particularly as Jesus claimed to be that very person? “don’t be afraid of them. Be afraid of me.” totally pacifist.
I’m a fervent anti religion.
But your arguments are your own interpretations of the passages that you quoted. And I gotta say, it’s just as bad as the interpretations of the Christian nationalists.
I didn’t even interpret these passages in the same way you did. I see them as plain metaphors.
And to say that this is directly connected to what’s happening with Christian nationalism and zionism, that’s a bit much. There are way more Christians and Jewish people globally that reject these movements and denounce them as nothing more than a misinterpretation to fit a violent narrative.
I’m saying it’s unsurprising that christian nationalism crops up because Jesus- the figure head and literal christian god claimed to be a judean monarch and was himself authoritarian in nature.
That there’s other people who chose to ignore that doesn’t mean I’m wrong about Jesus saying some abhorent shit.
If you ignore all the awful shit Hitler said, you’ll find there’s a few times he talked about communal welfare and social responsibility in a way that isn’t entirely offensive. The difference here is that we don’t literally ignore all the awful shit Hitler said and recognize him as an utterly vile example of human awfulness.
For example, In Mark 7 and Mathew 15, Jesus criticizes the pharisees for not stoning disobedient children. Do you think it’s appropriate to kill children who disobey their parents?
So you’re saying Hitler was right???
I’m kkidding!!!
It’s all good. I get your point. Maybe you interpret it that way. Maybe it was just a metaphor. But the truth, really, is that the English translation is a translation of a translation of old English of a translation of a Latin translation of a Greek translation of an Aramaic translation and it might even go beyond all that. It could have been a story ripped off of another story, etc.
But the core principle is, like I said, to have empathy and to be nice to each other. This has always been the message.