How are employers getting a hold of these results?
Easy. The insurer raises the rates because of a “pre-diagnosis” then the employer either switches plans or layoffs people. I don’t know how granular the layoffs would be. Were those 10k layoffs at Microsoft AI related or “pre-diagnosis.” Occam’s Razor says AI, but we don’t know for sure.
The better question is why does their employer have access to their private medical data
My understanding is that this isn’t what happened.
Meta laid off a bunch of employees. Meta claims they used an AI to gauge employees’ productivity as a basis for who they laid off. The employees are accusing Meta of laying off employees who took too much medical leave.
so… nothing to do with any sort of AI for medical purposes? well now the post just seems kinda silly now
That is more plausible, though still discriminatory
Depends. If employees lost productivity due to medical leave, then it makes sense. It’s one of the biggest parts of why women in the US (and around the world) are generally paid less, because they have children and are often out of the workforce for a period of time, ie lack of productivity.
Even in countries that allow for parental leave for both parents, you see couples still doing work arounds to keep at least one parent (often the male) in the workforce so they don’t lose out on their career path.
Same thing has happened to say millenials with the 2008 financial crisis. They lost productivity and were stunted in their career paths due to it, and the same thing is/has happened due to COVID.
I get that this might not be your opinion, so this isn’t intended as an attack, but damn it’s a messed up way to frame things. How dare humans follow their biological calling and build families instead of “being productive” for a boss!
And it’s all the more reason to make parental leave universal for all parents, regardless of gender. Women wouldn’t be discriminated in the work force, and fathers could bond with their kids during a crucial part of their lives
Let me try framing it another way. Consider two women, one who chooses not to have a child and one who does, sacrificing some of her work productivity in the process.
Couldn’t one say that the latter, sacrificed some of her pay in order to raise the child? Of course I’d argue the same for the father, if he sacrificed productivity as well (and if he didn’t he’s probably not a great father).
There are some places in Europe where practically entire towns will take a month off for vacation. Stores close, people travel, and it’s normal. Bosses don’t come down on employees about it, it’s part of the culture to have a work-life balance. Add up those months over the course of a lifetime, and that’s a lot more “time off” than the mere weeks some women get in the US for maternity leave (if we’re lucky enough to have a job that allows for it.)
I understand that time off can lead to “lost productivity,” but that misses the point. The point is that a culture that prioritizes “productivity at all times” has it backwards. There’s so much more to life than working. A month off here or there doesn’t make the world stop spinning. If the culture at large respected the need for work-life balance, this wouldn’t be an issue at all.
There’s nothing wrong with work-life balance. But those who work more should be paid more right? If you want to take more time off, for personal reasons or to care for your child, then there’s no shame in taking a pay cut to do so. Or simply moving to a job that is lower salary but more flexible. Your life doesn’t have to revolve around work and money. But likewise, somebody else might want to work more, and it feels normal for them to get paid more too.
And I’m not asking us to move back to when 80 hour work weeks were the norm, I think you can still get good work-life balance with 40 hour work weeks.
Medical leave legally can’t be used against you.
Lots of things “make sense”–like not allowing men under 25 to drive.
Oh thank god I live in a country with universal Healthcare and not in some dystopian syndicalist hellhole. This scenario is unthinkable where I live, AI in medicine is seen here as useful …
guarantee all that awesome data being shared that is saving lives will be being used for evil in non single payer countries for sure.
Unthinkable for the immediate future.
These days, even that seems more like a failure of imagination than an accurate prediction of the future :(
And thanks to your efforts abroad, they’ll make us more dystopian because “you’re shielded” (for now) so you’re not doing it to yourself, just the faceless Yanks and such.
Only in 'Murica would life-saving developments be used to deny people treatment so that some rich cunts can accumulate even more wealth
It’s a broken country, and I can’t wait to see it fall
Broken implies that this wasn’t the goal.
the goal is broken
The only issue is the many many millions, tens if not hundreds, that die as a direct result of that.
Anything that can be exploited for profit is fair game here. There’s hardly anything left at this point, so it’s starting to get grizzly
“Our most pessimistic theories were not bad enough”
Alright, if you look at this story from a more reputable source (Reuters), it’s quite a bit different. Meta isn’t accused of using AI with people’s medical information to make early diagnoses and lay them off. Instead,
According to the complaint, Meta used a number of internal AI-assisted systems to score and rank employees on a termination list. Those included “Metamate,” a large language model assistant; an employee-trained “second brain” that tracked workers’ communications and documents; and a productivity score drawn from scanning keystrokes, screen content, emails and browser history, according to the lawsuit.
The 26 plaintiffs, who filed the lawsuit anonymously, are accusing Meta of violating federal and state laws that ban discrimination or retaliation against workers who have disabilities, take medical leave or are pregnant. They also claim that Meta failed to test its AI systems for bias in violation of recently adopted California and New York City laws.
So it’s still shitty workplace surveillance and discrimination but not the same kind of surveillance and discrimination alleged in the Twitter posts. Meta is using AI to try to rank workers’ productivity (on a bunch of shitty metrics) in a way that may discriminate against people with disabilities or who take medical leave or who are pregnant.
What a bullshit arguments.
Decl. ¶¶ 19; Doe 4 Decl. ¶¶ 11. The monitoring program—announced internally as the “Model Capability Initiative”—thus captured not only employees’ work output but also their protected-leave and medical activity.
Literally in the court case papers.
source: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.474171/gov.uscourts.cand.474171.1.0.pdfYou will now say this is not true ? You’re AI enthusiast, Meta employee or something ?
I literally said that Meta was firing people for protected leave, disabilities, and medical issues. What I was denying is that they were firing people on the basis of “pre-diagnoses.” All the complaints in the lawsuit are based on diagnoses that employees disclosed to Meta. I think that’s shitty and illegal, but I don’t think there is evidence that Meta is acquiring undisclosed medical information about their employees and using that for layoffs.
Reuters is not a reputable source. And it’s the same headline
Meta isn’t accused of using AI with people’s medical information to make early diagnoses and lay them off. Instead,
Because Meta doesn’t have access to their medical info yet. They would 100% do so if they ever managed to get their hands on this info. Big corporations can’t wait to go full Aktion T4 mode.
I always heard Reuters is very reputable. Can you share some evidence that shows why you think it isn’t?
No idea why they are saying it’s not reputable. As far as I am aware, it puts out probably some of the most trusted news compared other similar news outlets. Plus it is also one of the least biased news sources out there right now.
Is there a newer version of this chart? It’s dated from 2018, and things have certainly changed since then.
Oh! Looks like there is an interactive version now. It does not seem to be optimized for phone, but Reuters is still roughly in the same spot it was in 2018.
One Palestinian genocide whitewashing later and Reuters is still on top…
Question the raters for once.
The chart doesn’t say that every article they’ve published falls there, it just says on average they do. There are multiple articles for them marked as less reliable.
Funny thing is, Infowars is now Onion property.
Yea haha. That is an out of date chart. They have an interactive one (posted in another comment). Though I didn’t check where Infowars falls now.
As a non American from a more socialist country: more like Overtonwindowbias.com 😅
Thanks, that’s what I understood!
You’re just posting the Propaganda Multiplier but it’s the propaganda version of it. These newspapers get their talking points from the US government and will publish whatever they are asked to. This is especially noticeable whenever the US invades a country and lies to manufacture consent for the invasion.
You’re posting a picture of Swiss Propaganda Research, an anonymous group that spreads conspiracy theories while accusing Swiss media of “one-sided and uncritical” reporting. This falls squarely into what we in Switzerland call Schwurbler territory: people who peddle wild claims like Bill Gates implanting 5G chips through COVID vaccines or “mainstream science” secretly working to enslave humanity. The figure presumably behind SPR, Daniele Ganser, styles himself as a “peace researcher” (a self-invented title with no academic foundation). He was fired from ETH Zurich, where he served as a Senior Researcher, for promoting 9/11 conspiracy myths, and his subsequent teaching positions, including at the University of St. Gallen, were terminated after his theories were deemed damaging to institutional reputation.
https://www.beobachter.ch/multimedia/digital/anonyme-warner-mit-scharfem-s-297308
It doesn’t matter who made it. What matter is that it’s correct. All international media copy pastes anything these propaganda outlets say without double checking it.
If you want a more blatant example of Reuters lying, during the Maccabi riots in Amsterdam they said that a video of Maccabi supporters attacking a Moroccan was the inverse to push the narrative that there was a Pogrom against Jews
Reuters and other propaganda outlets were notified of this by the person who made the video but they refused to correct it for multiple days because they had to keep the narrative going.
I will not engage further in this convo. you’re simplifying things. nobody claims that media never is without a doubt biasfree. but stating that all is propaganda fed by the pentagon is a false claim and spreading such nonsense is dangerous for every democracy. tschüss.
There pretty reputable but their writers use incredibly loaded language pretty often, sanewashing Trump and republicans while doing the opposite with dems to fuel the both sides discourse. More objective in average than the average but the agenda is still clear.
They’re on lemmy.ml. I’m sure they have some insane tankie reasoning
Your server is banning people for celebrating the death of Lindsey Graham it’s kind of incredible you’re claiming people are insane to not be on it.
Here’s a recent flagrant one https://lemmy.ml/post/48321919
Yeah… I’ve kinda been dreading the day when they attempt to modify HIPAA to allow the automation of the authorization process for work places to access your medical data.
Right now as a provider if a workplace requests medical records for one of my patients I get to decide if they have authorization, a valid reason to make the request, and get to determine what information they have access to that is pertinent to their request.
I have a sneaking suspicion that with the spread of EMR systems like Epic, employers will attempt to pressure legislators to change HIPAA to automate the process and cut providers out of the picture.
The problem is that electronic medical records programs like Epic are still really shit about how they allocate things like diagnosis codes. There doesn’t seem to be a good way to differentiate primary diagnosis codes made by a PCP and the diagnosis codes used for billing and documenting follow up care. It forces you to enter diagnosis codes anytime you enter a medical note, even if you don’t have the proper licensing to make a diagnosis. So when someone like a nurse is documenting their care, they may just add miscellaneous diagnosis code just so they can enter their documentation.
Now any human who works in healthcare and has used Epic can read through the note and from context understand that it’s a throw away miscellaneous dx code, but something like AI may just use that dx code as justification to widen the scope of their access.
So did they look at weird boobie pictures to decide to fire female employees or nah?
They would if they could. That’s the point.
They’re already using AI to detect medical conditions to fire people on.
Capitalism will eventually look at your weird boobie pictures and fire you for them if you Capitalism long enough.
Probably any system that is managed too efficiently starts to suck.
This is really an interesting example. Not sure if one should blame AI or capitalism for this. Kinda reminds me of Gattaca.
Theoretically capitalism could do this manually to optimize for profit, but there are limits. You can only hire so many completely psychotic human resources employees until very weird and bad shit starts to happen and your company is sucked straight into a hellmouth. But an AI robot is completely objective, unemotional, unbiased, beautifully soulless and can surely maximize profit endlessly with no pesky human side effects. Obviously it can’t but that is the dream.
Capitalism exists to serve, you guessed it, capital.
This means those who have money will be served and those who don’t have money will not.
Big banks who have money are getting bailouts and poor people have their social security removed.
Large companies have their needs fulfilled and those who don’t have money are not.
Allways this, better than “Fuck AI” is “Fuck AI from big corps” (and big greedy corps too)
“Technology” under capitalism is a regressive force for violence, theft, and control.
Technology enabled new skills, and then these are used with force to gain power.
Technology enabled current skills to be done at a larger scale, essentially creating new skills that are then applied with force to gain power.
The people with the skills to use technology are not the ones with the power.
Their bosses are the ones with power, and they don’t know fucking anything.
Yup, exploitation of labor per usual.
But when I say ‘skills’ I didn’t mean individual coding ability, I mean like Analytics. Skills that an entire corporation wields. Monitoring weather and hiking prices for utilities during a national emergency incrementally or ‘intelligently’. The way VW cheated on emissions. The way flock uses optical text recognition to read license plates and effectively creates a massive surveillance apparatus.
Use tech to do a thing, but scale it up wide and quick, abuse it before the law can catch up.
Oh look, psychopath CEOs are helping people die faster. And we still do nothing.
The Supreme Court just ruled that it’s not racism unless someone specifically points at an action and says “I’d like to do that racism, please!” and so I expect them to use that precedent to target people with disabilities. “They didn’t say it out loud, and even though a policy specifically harmed the disabled, it doesn’t count”
Edit. Louisiana v Callais
Ah you see your honour it can’t be illegal, because it’s actually more profitable this way, and so conform to the natural order of the brotherhood of the ever rising line (forever may it rise, straight and true)
The SC just went to Congress yesterday to beg for money for security. I wonder why they need security if they are doing their jobs?..
This is basically it and how I see it working at places I’ve worked at. HR gathers information about you and then uses it to fire you when firing you is necessary…when you’re no longer needed. So for example if you’re an assembly worker and your product is end of production, you’re done. Now engineering goes to work on a new trinket and you gotta wait until they are done. But when engineering is done, they’re fucked. Now you’re king because there’s production to be done while engineering scrambles to figure out a new project that management wants to work on.
Reason 748 on why the US health system is fucked up.
Anywhere else in the world, this saves lives.
Reason 748 on why the US is fucked up.
FTFY
This sounds American.
It can happen to every and any healthcare system, insurance, institution having data in the cloud: if the host has activities in the US, it’s at legal risk of data being demanded under US laws ; if not, there’s always the risk of a leak.
That Meta used it so directly is very Meta. But you don’t know what your employer has on you thanks to big data. You’re in debt? Well, that means you desperately needs the job: no bonus, no raise. You have health issue? Let’s put you on the red list: no promotion, favored name in case of layoff. Etc.
Fuck yeah
🇺🇲🇺🇲eagle screech that’s actually a red tailed hawk 🇺🇲🇺🇲
It’s not even greed, isn’t this just cruelty at this point?
Dealing with an early diagnosis should be significantly cheaper and more beneficial. Your paying customer lives longer to continue to pay you more for less investment. Right?
For insurance its best if you never need it. Your house burns down or you crash you car. These things don’t happen all the time to everyone.
Healthcare happens all the time and we will all need it at some point. Joining it to employment or something financiual you can lose is a disaster waiting to happen.
Death panels are in full force they are just being replaced by AI.
Sounds like zuck needs to have irreversible health issues~
He’ll spent billions to treat himself and will still do this kind of shit.
Always remember these people consider themselves above the crowd and think it’s completely normal they’re treated differently.So innocent. Think they could treat lead in head and neck? Or, if somehow someone manages to kidnap them, could like, break some Geneva conventions and make them write new ones, all while he’s alive and in pains only know to hell/ guantanamo. I yearn to hear his screams of agony.
I believe it was more irreversible, like a severe cerebral lead poisoning.
The world would be a better place if he were diagnosed with Mangione Syndrome. I heard a health insurance CEO was diagnosed with it in late 2024, and died very shortly after
That’s not what they mean.
Arterial ventilation?
i’m waiting for the phone announcement
This reminds me of the movie Gattaca. A future world where your path in life is heavily influenced based on your genes.
Unlike our noble society of today where people are not judged based on looks, intelligence, strength or people skills.
