Italy’s far right wants “remigration”? Easy: help African countries so they can have a good working market and good salaries.
But the far right doesn’t want to help. This is just xenophobia.
The pessimist in me wants to see what would happen if everybody, in all European countries, we “remigrated” outside of it. How would the European economy fare? What would happen to birthrates? What would happen to culture? What would Europe look like and would the left-over Europeans actually like it? What would happen to rest of the world and how many people would actually be “remigrated”?
The problem of the debate on migration is that it’s always black and white, it’s difficult to have nuance, and this is a complex topic where nuance is essential to achieve a reasonable policy, one that allows needed workers from outside Europe to work in Europe, but one that also addresses the safety and demographic concerns of Europeans. The debate is clearly being won by the far-right, although they easily reverse their own policies when they see a negative impact on their businesses.
But the left won’t win this if their position is always and only of defense of current policies against far-right attacks. Europe needs migration, but Europeans also need assurances that that migration doesn’t put in question their social contract and their way of life. And these are indeed being put to test in several places around Europe. Easy cheap labour makes everyone’s jobs more precarious, especially among the less qualified ones. Muslim migration is indeed changing the way of life in many neighborhoods and cities around Europe, in a way that doesn’t please the locals. There are real issues with real consequences in the real world, lefty university professors praising diversity while living in gentrified areas and having the most secure jobs in the country won’t be the ones winning the debate.
it’s difficult to have nuance, and this is a complex topic where nuance is essential to achieve a reasonable policy
its often a red flag when people say this is a complex topic , they usually mean my argument makes me out to be horrible human. being but hear me out anyway and i hope you might agree.
A reasonable policy is often dog whistle to ensure continued advantage to the neoliberal system of economic serfdom.
But the left won’t win this
i agree completely but that’s because most of the 80% don’t care and are ok to follow the 10% who are the psychopaths.
Where is the real debate around how will we go about abolishing nation states for example?
There is no winning here until that happens. Anything else is just how much support you have for apartheid.
I think immigration is a distraction and a veil to protect the rich. With the wealth and infrastructure, Europe can take in millions of people. With the wealth it possesses, we can have a strong social security net, free education, and maintain our current lifestyle quite easily. We “just” have to distribute the wealth, money and power better.
Look around, every country in Europe is struggling with maintaining its population numbers. The cost of living crisis, the lack of prospects, the bleak outlook, and centralisation of wealth is hindering people from seeing themselves with children, much less affording them. The workforce is shrinking quickly and cannot provide neither manpower nor the money to pay for the pensions of the evergrowing group of retirees - that is mostly because the money is either flowing outside of the countries or into the pockets of the rich and wealthy.
The problem isn’t “the muzzies” nor “brown people are destroying our culture”. It’s that people who come to Europe are being treated like they don’t belong. Governments aren’t doubling down on integration but are instead ostracising them despite requiring them. It’s a formula that will bear its nasty fruit. You can fly in thousands of Indian nurses, treat them like shit, and expect them to be happy. Invest in their future, invest in them, and the neighborhoods they are in.
Happy, successful citizens do their best to see their country thrive. Poor, sidelined, citizens forced to survive might be easy to control and pit against each other, but they do not make for a stable society.
Pointing fingers at groups within the 99% doesn’t do anything but help the percenters or dot-percenters.
No region of the world can receive millions of people without disruptions. Some thousands and you have a housing crisis already, shitty apartments in Lisbon are more expensive than good ones in Brussels. And the total of the population barely changed…
Also, migration without controls is a neoliberal agenda, not a left one. Controlled economy doesn’t work with uncontrolled migration. It’s weird to me that it’s always the left carrying the defense of migration when it’s something of a free market ideology. Socialist countries are always extremely controlling of their borders.
I think you both make good points.
Immigration can only work with integration, and there are limits beyond which things just… break.
And ideally, people shouldn’t have to upend their lives and move to entire different continents for a chance of a decent living.
I see carrying the torch for the rich is your past time. Keep it up.
I don’t think they’re “carrying the torch for the rich” - at least not intentionally.
You’re the one advocating for cheap labour without restrictions, how am I the one carrying the flame for the rich? The rich love cheap labour! But yeah, with that dominant ideology among left parties, no wonder the popular classes vote far-right…
You’re assuming all immigrants are cheap labor. I know which political ideology you lean towards.
Hint: Expats are immigrants and so are foreign nationals from the US, Italy or Australia in any European country that isn’t Italy.
I just gave you the example of house prices in Lisbon, and those are not being pulled up by cheap labour, but uncontrolled migration also means cheap labor.
And no, a EU citizen in another EU country is not an immigrant. But an American digital nomad in Lisbon yes, is indeed an immigrant.
Also, advocating for limits and policies that regulate migration doesn’t mean being against it all together. It’s not a yes or no question, precisely what I’ve been trying to say since the first comment.
