We’re so back
One thing to highlight: T-series Lenovo laptops are mainstream business products shipped at a huge scale.
This is not a small-scale experimental product for the tinkerers. This may define the biggest laptop segment if it works out well. It might be the first time in a while that something like this hits such a huge market.
Does 10/10 mean it’s got RAM and drives accessible without needing to disassemble the whole fucking thing?
Nice to see both aren’t soldered onto the motherboard, but we’ve still gone backwards in the last 20 years.
Back in the day every screw on thinkpads had a series of little symbols on them to tell you which ones you needed to undo in order to get to the ram, storage, keyboard, and fans. Without needing a repair manual. I hope they brought that back!
without needing to disassemble the whole fucking thing
well you still need to take the bottom cover off
Nah they soldiered it to the cpu cooler cause fuck you thats why
Read the article. They’re using replaceable modules.
They got scared by Framework sucess
Exactly, but it still won’t get them my money. I believe in rewarding companies who had the balls to listen to their customers first with my dollars. Framework will be my next laptop no matter what any other competitor comes out with.
They’re the only reason we’re seeing any company starting to u-turn and make modular/repairable laptops.
Well, good…
Though reparability is a good part of it, another would be a concrete commitment that the form factor of various things will be consistent generation to generation, that Gen 8 boards will fit into a current laptop.
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I suppose Framework will be the better laptop for individuals looking to buy a new laptop, but also business class laptops come with fancy enterprise things like on-site repairs. So I think large corporations, the main customers of new T series Thinkpads, will continue buying them just the same anyway.
I think the people benefitting the most here actually are going to be the people buying off-lease Thinkpads. Those of us who know a quality used laptop is better than a cheapo new one (like a Pavilion or Ideapad), but also don’t want to spring for a brand new laptop (in which case Framework would be the best option - they’d be great used too, but they’re not that common on the used market)
yeah, my company recently switched away from dell to Framework laptops. a couple of my coworkers with the Framework laptops really like them. They like how sturdy they are. The magnesium alloy case doesn’t flex at all. Our dell laptops with plastic cases often get dented and bent so eastily, and cause various problems.
We also have a couple Lenovo laptops, and I haven’t heard of any issues. Generally, the plastic used for Lenovo’s cases are noticeably thicker and harder than dells’.
I definitely feel a sense of ease knowing that if anything goes wrong with our framework laptops, I will most likely be able to fix it.
That’s awesome, but what issues did they have with dell? They’re pretty easy to disassemble and repair if you don’t buy the cheap consumer shit, get latitudes. But I’m all for straying away for framework.
Could they please cooperate with Framework and create Universal Joints?
At a guess, such cooperation would undermine Lenovo’s profit margin and would thus be a non-starter for them.
Enter government regulation, to pinch corporations by the ear and drag them to doing what’s right for society.
I HATE the idea if you can’t make money off it, even if would make the world 10x better for everyone, companies won’t do it. Shareholders gotta eat!!
This its why capitalism is failing. Shareholder profit is a fundamentally unsustainable incentive.
Idc.
Do it.
Just a lil nitpick: article is by iFixit who is a Lenovo business partner. So perhaps less objective than one might hope.
They even state it them selves in the article, so it is not like they are trying to hide this. Also they say that this is not the end all be all of reparability, which IMO should merit not then getting a 10/10 but idk what their metrics are.
It seems to me that Lenovo’s repairably is more affected by that iFixit partnership than the opposite. I don’t see anything factually wrong or suspicious in the article.
Nevertheless, a conflict of interests is possible.
I agree, but like others have said, it bodes well that they’re open about this in the article
As someone who has changed a laptop keyboard before.
That picture says it all.
Picture’s worth a thousand expletives.
I use iFixit’s guides all the time, so I would hope that their score isn’t affected by it. I’ve seen them as being fairly good at their role.
This is true, but they’re also not wrong that fully-modular USB-C ports is an absolutely huge win. It’s one of the biggest things when it comes to laptops these days.
It’s unlikely that fact will change the repairability of the devices. They risk too much by posting biased and false information on that end.
I picked up a 2025 P14s Gen 6. Wanted Ethernet and the ability to easily swap both RAM sticks in the future. Apart from the soldered WiFi chip, this computer is by far one of the most modern and repairable ones I’ve seen. Perfectly runs Fedora KDE, too.
T series are also fantastic, but at the time it wasn’t as repairable given one RAM stick was soldered and the other was replaceable. Also because of the form factor it didn’t have Ethernet.
Can’t go wrong with a P series if your needs are similar to mine in a computer for long-term use.
Edit: Forgot to add that while my P14s Gen 6 is great, the biggest complaint is the soldered USB C ports for power delivery. That’s a huge point of failure. I mitigate the weak point by using a magnetic USB C cable. It’s nice to see the the new T series has modular USB C / thunderbolt ports and remediates the weak point that was a common complaint for users.
I like my P16, but I found that despite being brand new the build quality is a little shoddy. There’s a creak when I rest my right hand next to the track pad, the screen actually overhangs to the side of the keyboard! And a couple other plastic bits seem like they creaked and behaved poorly since I received it. Good components though.
There’s a difference between ‘repairable’ and ‘upgradable.’ Most of the comments seem to conflate the two. Lenovo isn’t doing a Framework.
It’s a smart move. Differentiates them from other laptop-makers for corporate IT, who can do the parts swaps themselves. Also smart is associating the brand with iFixit and working to get a 10/10. That’ll be what sets them apart from all the others, at least for the next year or two.
There’s a difference between ‘repairable’ and ‘upgradable.’
Absolutely! I’ve got a Lenovo IdeaPad Flex 5 (laptop/tablet thingy).
I’ve upgraded/replaced the ssd - no problem.
Unfortunately, this laptop has an issue with the keyboard: the left section/panel intermittently stops sending inputs. Meaning, keys like escape, a, w, shift, l-control - just stop (even in the bios). I’d read that they keyboard “collects” static which causes problems with certain sections of the keyboard.
I thought I’d see how difficult it would be to replace the keyboard. I watched a teardown video, and of course you need to remove everything… but I lost it when, the person in the video used a heat gun to melt “plastic rivits” that connected the keyboard to the motherboard case. Then with the replacement keyboard needed to remelt the plastic rivits.
This laptop is not repairable. In fact, I swore I’d never buy another Lenovo again as a result. … but if their focus is on making them repairable (
and their recent partnership with GrapheneOSedit: oops, that’s Motorola and GrapheneOS) - I might be eating crow tonight.Note that ThinkPad and IdeaPad are practically different companies with how Lenovo acts.
Fully expect IdeaPads to continue to be shit. ThinkPad can do the most wondrous good stuff in the world and IdeaPad will stay garbage.
And yes, I went through the same exact maddeningly shitty keyboard replacement procedure. Never again IdeaPad, though ThinkPad has been fine.
Bonus points, ThinkPad brand never shipped Superfish, and most of the firmware security flaws have been IdeaPad side. It’s amazing how half-assed they are with that brand yet pretty competent with ThinkPad.
oops, that’s Motorola
https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/d/motorola-smartphones/ Same company, actually, so you were basically right the first time!
The “upgradability” part in a small laptop is questionable to me, anyway.
The GPU is really compromised in that chassis, as having it in a slot compromises cooling big time, and limits how much power it can use. And while I love upgradable RAM for the CPU… it’d be better if they used faster CAMM modules. Many other brands have upgradable SSDs/WiFi.
Swappable ports are awesome, no question.
…But honestly, I’d rather have a smaller chassis, bigger GPU and better cooling right off the bat, like a Zephyrus chassis. And have it reparable, and make the whole motherboard standardized/swappable, but not compromise the chassis so severely by making it modular.
A think pad t series is not really much harder to take apart than a framework. Just more screws and fewer magnets. The screen is probably an exception however.
That’s his point. It’s similar to framework, but not the same.
Easy repairability is great, truly.
But framework offers more than that, easy repairability AND upgradability, because they offer new upgraded parts with the same compatibility as the old ones, so you can just drop them in.
Lenovo is not yet doing that. Which is fine. Just a noteworthy difference.
While easy to repair, how does durability compare so you don’t need to repair it in the first place?
While not bad like an HP consumer grade laptop, I have not heard good things about the rigidity of the frameworks. All the modularity takes away space for reinforcement and leaves more points for things to break.
The modularity might be considered almost a gimmick of recessed USB-C accessories, so I would personally be happy with a device that leaves that outside the core chassis, so long as the chassis ports are at least as modular as this ThinkPad concept. No idea if those big empty areas are a serious liability structurally or not…
Even among shitty laptops, it’s always been keyboard, screen, or charging port as the things that break, not sure structural support matters too much on those fronts. I have had boards fail, but not due to physical events.
I would be curious to see how often people actually upgrade their frameworks.
I agree with their repair stance. It just feels like one of those things people will tell you they want and then never do.
Still maybe the explosion in memory prices will change the incentives and people will start holding things longer. It will be interesting to see.
I would be curious to see how often people actually upgrade their frameworks.
For me, I’ve upgraded my mainboard to a newer CPU generation for better integrated graphics (old one is in a case as a home server) and I upgraded to their matte screen when they released those.
It is a bigger deal in business settings, where one laptop can see multiple hands and you’ve got a team dedicated to repair.
Not typically an issue for the individual user, but increasingly an issue for a team of users as the size of the team grows
I got my framework about a year ago, before the tariffs got crazy, and well before ram got crazy (I put 96 gigs in it to play with AI workloads, and for the lulz).
My plan is to ride this thing until it starts showing its age. Which I imagine will be another 3 or 4 years? Only then can I comment on my actual desire and commitment to upgrading it.
Until then, I’m just banking on the fact that the company will a) live. And b) still have parts for my machine.
I do appreciate what they’re doing, and I like my machine now.
There are definitely people out there who upgrade super frequently, who knows, maybe I’ll be one of them in 1 or 2 years instead of 3 or 4. Hard to say what life will look like then, the way things go these days.
Lenovo also owns the Motorola phone brand, and they’re going to adopt/allow GrapheneOS. I think they know how to grab customers right now, and I honestly like it.
Isnt lenovo the company that used to make the rugged military laptops that actually had Chinese or foreign backdoors installed?
They’re usually also well supported on Linux, and even sell them with Ubuntu and Fedora pre-installed. Generally not a terrible brand.
Is that a good idea for a non tech person* with no Linux experience who absolutely needs to send documents successfully to others the first time without delay or should I just wait until my degree is finished and I am less dependent on document interoperability and have fewer absolute deadlines?
- My level of technical knowledge is here: if a program or usb device isn’t functioning, I know to check the driver, but I always have to look up what the device manager is called. On the other hand, I am capable of looking things up and following simple instructions, which has to count for something.
If you know what a driver and device manager is and know how to Google search you are already leagues ahead of most ordinary people, especially with AI now getting answers is even easier, if your use case is simple student stuff and sending documents, Linux is gonna be very comfortable for that, the only concern is a minor chance of driver issues for something like biometric sensor or graphics cards on laptops, for that you can look up which distro and driver combo works for your specific hardware, but in my experience these days by and large most Linux distro just work out of the box with mordern hardware, you can test one out before installing with a live USB and if you want the most amount of compatibility but a laptop that comes pre installed with Linux or has the option of Linux provided by the manufacturer as that guarantees the hardware plays nice at least with the distro the manufacturer supports
You’re as prepared as anyone ever is. Getting good with a search engine is the best preparation.
Also, if that fails? Most distros have a forum where you can ask for help and actually get it.
Document interoperability? LibreOffice works well, and you can save in all the same formats as MS Office and more.
The learning curve is mostly what the new tools and programs are called. But so much stuff actually works better over there in Linux land - VLC, Krita, Blender, Audacity, much more.
Try things in a Virtual Machine! If you really can’t give up some of your windows tools, you can try dual-booting, but Windows Update doesn’t always play nice with another OS on the machine.
Also, don’t forget creating a bootable USB stick with the distros you think you’d like. Rufus or balena etcher should get you there, just figure out what distros you think you’d like to try out, as sometimes it can be easier to set those up than create a vm, plus you might be able to notice any obvious issues running natively.
You’re exactly at the perfect level to start getting your feet wet without losing productive time (as long as you don’t go on a distro-hop frenzy 🤣).
Weirdly enough, you’re way ahead of 99% of the tech-using population worldwide.
If your computer has 4+ cores/threads and 8GB or more of ram, I’d set up a virtual machine to test it out.
Linux itself works just fine for anything, but it’s different. There’s a learning curve and you might find that the thing you need to do immediately has a different process than what you’re used to, or needs some setting up first. There’s also always formatting differences between word and libreoffice writer (same can be said for different versions of word), and some higher level excel things that aren’t easy or not possible in calc.
your level of technical knowledge is so far beyond the average person’s that it’s insane. the idea of ‘my computer has a problem, i’m going to google what the popup says’ simply does not occur to so, so many people.
also- you can definitely make and send documents with linux, no problem. more popular distros (ubuntu, mint, fedora (which i recommend, but im biased)) are as intuitive and point-and-click for surface level use as Windows is, and most come pre-installed with an office suite.
You can try out most Linux software immediately on Windows, so you know what you’re in for. LibreOffice and GIMP work in Windows, but that isn’t really true the other way around with Office and Photoshop. Your mileage may vary when it comes to tolerating these alternatives.
Depends. If you use Google docs or the browser version of Office 365 (or whatever it’s called now) you’ll be fine. If you want to use an offline document editor, you’ll need to be technical enough to understand the difference between file formats like doc, odf and pdf.
If you receive a doc file, edit it in LibreOffice and send it back, the recipient might complain that the layout has shifted slightly.
If you need to be absolutely sure the recipient gets the document layed out exactly as you created it and they don’t need to edit it, exporting to pdf is a good option.
If you need to send or receive Excel/spreadsheet files you might have a bad time, I think. Though interoperability there may have improved since the last time I tried that sort of thing.
Before switching to Linux, download the Windows/Mac version of LibreOffice or OnlyOffice and see if it suits your needs. If not, it should be possible to run Office 365 on Linux using Wine or Winboat. However, Wine might not work or require too much tinkering for the average noob. Winboat should be more foolproof, but will increase the startup time of the application because you’re running it inside a Windows VM.
It depends. If you get a Laptop that is specifically compatible with Linux (like a Lenovo) and use a “noobie Distro” (like I do (Linux Mint or Fedora, whichever looks nicer to you)) then you’re fine
If you use a Laptop which is not compatible, you’re going to have a very bad time
Your technical knowledge as described is unironically far beyond the average user so I’d say you’re probably good. Depends on what you want to do though. You can occasionally have problems if you need to do something specific or are married to software that doesn’t exist on Linux. Word processing is down pat. You won’t have the app version of Microsoft Office, but there are open source alternatives like LibreOffice that are compatible with Office file types. For formatting, you may have to download some Microsoft owned fonts since they’re technically proprietary and not bundled with Linux/your office suite. In browser, Microsoft 365 and Google Docs works no differently than normal.
As someone else mentioned, you can test almost any distro on a live USB. There is also this site where you can remote in and test the general look and feel for free. You won’t have an internet connection though:
I think you’ll be OK but there will be a slightly learning curve since it is a different OS. As for documents make sure they work well with either LibreOffice or OnlyOffice, which should be available on other OSes. There are also always online office suites if needed.
If you have a spare flash drive, you can also test out Linux distros (flavors) before installing them in a live mode, like a demo.
Best of luck.
Installing something like Linux Mint or Ubuntu is fairly easy. The hardest part is probably creating the install media and that’s not particularly hard ei her.
If you don’t rely on specific software (like Adobe), using Linux is a good idea. I’d still advice not to mess with a computer you rely on and wait until you have sufficient time to troubleshoot something. Even if nothing goes wrong a new OS can still take a little getting used to.
Try with a VM first, or install on an external drive and boot from USB.
I got a Mac at work and I struggled for a long time to do many basic things. Any change can be a challenge and there’s a learning curve. Same moving to Linux
You should be fine if it’s just messing with the usual document types but my understanding is universities use a lot of proprietary bullshit for homework and stuff these days that probably doesn’t play well with Linux. I would try setting up a virtual machine or a old PC if you have one first to dip your toes in the water
Not gonna lie, Linux is a pretty big learning curve, but it’s worth it to get away from Apple and (especially) Microslop Winblows. It’s the only OS that respects the user.
Lol what I was using Linux when I was a kid. Other than learning how to use terminal commands and a package manager occasionally it’s hardly any different from other OSs
IMO switching to Linux as a new user is no harder than switching from Windows to Mac, which I think is something more people can identify with and aren’t afraid of, for the most part.
Couldn’t disagree more. Having to learn how to use the command line to complete basic tasks is a huge learning curve.
what basic task have you run into that requires the command line? have you tried Mint? my 83 year old dad has been on mint for over a year with no complaints, and I don’t think he even knows how to open the terminal . . .
I’m just not interested in rehashing this conversation. Anyone who has used Linux already knows, even if they won’t admit it. Being dishonest about it isn’t helping anyone. I used Windows for 30 years and never touched any kind of CLI in that time. I did use it on MacOS but only for Homebrew because there’s no other GUI alternative.
i think it heavily depends on the person’s use case. if someone is doing web browsing and maybe making a couple word documents, the learning curve is negligible. also, you dont need to use BASH to do most things, it’s 2026. most anything you can think of, you can do via GUI.
It doesn’t matter what the usecase is if the Wifi or speakers or camera don’t work. Or if all the icons and text are so small as to be nearly impossible to read.
Couldn’t disagree more. Having to learn how to use a Mac is a huge learning curve.
Didn’t they have some huge controversy for having spyware pre-installed or something like that a few years ago? Doesn’t take away from the direction they’re moving in now, though! Hopefully they continue to move in this more pro-consumer direction.
Yeah the Superfish incident. AFAIK they haven’t done anything sketchy since then and if you’re the type to just wipe everything and install your own distro anyway it shouldn’t really affect anything but still not a great look.
I presume you are referring to the SuperFish scandal in 2015.
Ubuntu? Yeah. It’s pretty much the only distro I will recommend against using (the Ubuntu spins are usually fine though). They offer Fedora as well though. And it’s still way better than Winblows.
They were also the first OEM to support steam deck on their handheld (beside Valve).
I’ve been a ThinkPad user for about 4 years now, got a second-hand T470s running Fedora. It’s been an amazing experience! I’m not one for brand loyalty, but (so long as Lenovo doesn’t fuck them up) ThinkPads will always be my first choice for a laptop.
I’ve been wandering the laptop desert for a few years now. Lenovo, Dell, System76, Framework, StarLabs.
I’m currently on a Dell Pro 13, but the keyboard really sucks and the hardware isn’t fully Linux compatible.
StarLabs had keyboard issues and terrible battery life.
Framework seems like Linux was an after thought. Their HiDPI display isn’t fully Linux compatible.
I recently got my parents an X13 and everything just works. Camera, Bluetooth, graphics, display. All good.
I prefer 13in screens, but I’ll take the repairability of the T14 gen 7!
I didn’t know that about Framework HiDPI displays
Yeah I like Lenovo in general too! I have an Ideapad rather than a Thinkpad, but this is my second Lenovo and they’ve both lasted for ages, never had any weird problems, played nice with Linux etc.
What’s the price of this compared to a comparable (feature-wise) laptop? Just curious what the repairability premium is.
Depends on what features you value. Just raw specs? Some HP garbage will cost probably half what a comparable T14 costs.
2-3 years used? That ThinkPad is probably the same price or cheaper thanks to companies retiring leased machines.
First, you have to define “comparable”. These are Enterprise-grade laptops. Their class includes the Dell Latitude and HP Elitebook. It doesn’t include anything you will ever find at Best Buy. It might be tempting to do so, since your visible specs like CPU and RAM are the same. But they really aren’t the same.
Within their class, Lenovo has (for over a decade) been noticeably more expensive than their counterparts. Roughly $100-150 more per unit for the T4x0/T14 vs a Latitude 74x0 (now Dell Pro) or an Elitebook 840.
Current prices are: HP Elitebook 8 G1i 14 - Core Ultra 5 236v, 16GB/512GB, $1249
Dell Pro 14 - Core Ultra 5 236v, 16GB/512GB, $1659
Lenovo Thinkpad T14 Gen 6 - Core Ultra 235u, 16GB/512GB, $1809.
All have integrated graphics.
I don’t think the detailed specs/pricing for Gen7 (what the article is about) has been announced yet. I would expect it to be in line with previous generations, since their 9/10 repairability score was.
Ooh yes baby! As an early Framework adopter who’s repaired it already a few times, including a solder job on the board, I am happy to see it. I am getting increasingly angsty about where Framework would go in the future as its VCs crank up the profit knob. Having the biggest real manufacturer in the world introduce an alternative is fantastic. With that said, it also depends on Lenovo actually making parts direct-for-purchase available at decent prices. Without that, repairability serves just as marketing wank.
E: Is that a magnesium body plate?
An advantage that Framework still has is their upgradeability.
Fact.
But to be honest, the strength of the body of the Framework is pretty weak. Drops and more pressure result in permanent bending. I’ve already replaced one bottom. So if one wants a physically durable machine that can be thrown around, upgradeability might be okay to give up.
Is that a magnesium body plate?
As is tradition for thinkpads.
I thought they went away from it for their latest gens.
No, they’ve always had some sort of magnesium reinforcement. Full blown roll cage? Yeah that went away around the T440 series. E or L series? They’ve always been cheaper. But there’s always been some magnesium reinforcement on the T series.
T460 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/jrMAAOSwOwdkVWl8/s-l1200.jpg
T480 https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/31Oj9fSCo-L._AC_UF894,1000_QL80_.jpg
T14 Gen 1 https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S59cb725ffd0043ccacb3e731f8409715c.jpg
Gen 3 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Lenovo+ThinkPad+T14+Gen+3+Keyboard+Replacement/157530#s329289
Gen 5 https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dn8AAOSwqT9mg1T-/s-l400.jpg
Oh yeah. You’re right.
Oh my. It seems you’re right.
Its nice to see the return of the classics!
In six years I have burnt through two Lenovo ThinkPads. In the first the USB C charging port malfunctioned, and it turns out the charging port is soldered directly to the motherboard so they had to replace the whole thing. Ever since I got it back from repairs it enters into kernel panics all the time, no matter which distro I install.
I was in the middle of writing my thesis so I had no time for repairs when it broke, so I ordered mysef a new ThinkPad. I had to choose between pre-assembled models, and I wanted a high resolution display, a good processor, and some other things. I got one with not quite as much RAM as I really needed, and found out when I wanted to upgrade that they had rendered upgrading RAM completely impossible in that model of ThinkPad. It wasn’t even one of the new slim ones, but a pretty traditional bulky one. Complete bullshit.
Both of these laptops are recent enough that had they not sucked I would still be using them years from now. I’m happy Lenovo appear to be changing their ways, but I wouldn’t touch another ThinkPad with a stick after my experiences with them.
Currently I’m using a Framework 13. Hopefully it’ll last me decades.
I can beat that. in 3 months I went through 4 legion pro laptops. it took 4 tries to get one that wasn’t broken in some medium to catastrophic way. this was my first and possibly last Lenovo experience.
That’s nice you can replace the charging port without reflowing the motherboard now.
Our business stopped buying them completely after they fucked us around with the USBC port burnouts and didn’t acknowledge it, I know it’s not a huge amount but they will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales from us
So many laptops just wasted before they patched it
Return of socketed mobile CPUs when?
Won’t laptop manufacturers need to get CPU manufacturers to produce socketed mobile CPUs again?
I don’t think that would be very profitable. Spending lots of money negotiating with the CPU company just for a very small fraction of customers.
Should most electronics come with no servicability at all, because most customers are not gorillas breaking products for no good reason?
The road to enshittification is paved with people telling you to just use the popular thing everyone else, calling removable media “e-waste”, or even suggesting you to just buy a pair of Raycons if you don’t want to pay for electrostatic headphones and an audiophile external DAC.
