Lutris maintainer use AI generated code for some time now. The maintainer also removed the co-authorship of Claude, so no one knows which code was generated by AI.
Anyway, I was suspecting that this “issue” might come up so I’ve removed the Claude co-authorship from the commits a few days ago. So good luck figuring out what’s generated and what is not.
This explains why the updates have ruined everything in the past month. I turned off updates on Lutris so my games will actually still work.
AI sucks and needs to go away.
The flatpak version finally updated its dependencies on an out of date library, so that much is an improvement. I don’t use it for much though, mainly to run origin or whatever they’re calling it now.
Lutris was always trash
Tangent: crediting Claude with co-authorship? wtf?
I can totally see the mega-techs trying to push that in EULAs, but for an individual to do it seems strange, even though there’s a kernel of honesty behind it. It also seems risky as far as OpenMetaMicroogleAI finding future loopholes to steal your shit.
This dev talks like they are doing everything else the right way, as far as reviewing and understanding the code regardless of its source. In that situation I’d look at blocks of LLM-generated code the same way as ones copy/pasted from stackoverflow or 3rd party example code. At BEST you have “here’s something that might work” which is nowhere close to actually being done if you’re any good. (insert joke about "it compiles, ship it!)
Cory Doctorow explores this in his most recent column, describing the concept of “Centaurs” and “Reverse Centaurs”.
A centaur is a human piloting a machine body. They’re faster and stronger because of the machine, but the human is in charge. A reverse centaur is a machine piloting a human body; a brainless head on a largely inferior body.
In the context of generative AI, centaurs are people use AI tools carefully, intentionally, and of their own volition. They have the knowledge necessary to assess when the output of the machine tools is good or bad, and the machine simply becomes, like any other tool, a way of leveraging their abilities more efficiently.
A reverse centaur is when you have a “human in the loop.” An intern told to write a stack of columns that would take ten experienced writers a week, in only a few days, but don’t worry you can just use ChatGPT it’ll be so fast. That person really only exists for two purposes; to push the buttons that make the machine go, and, far more importantly, to eat the blame when the machine fucks up. They were the “human in the loop” so they were supposed to catch the bad output, but they were never given the time or the expertise to do so, and they were placed in a scenario where using genAI was the only possible choice to get the outcome that was demanded of them.
I don’t see the use of AI tools, especially in areas that they are well suited to like coding, as automatically befitting the “AI slop” descriptor. Gen AI can be extremely effective as a coding assistant, when used with care, and by someone with enough knowledge to read the output and understand it completely. As you say, a huge amount of normal everyday coding has, for decades, been copy and pasting code blocks because why the fuck would repeat work that someone else has already done??? And for decades bad coders have screwed themselves over by copy-pasting code they don’t understand or didn’t bother to properly read and parse. That’s nothing new.
Now, it’s also completely reasonable for people to hold ethical objections to genAI that are entirely separate from any practical concerns. If someone’s position is “I do not care how good the output is, because I believe it comes from a fundamentally immoral technology”, I think that’s a completely cogent moral stance. I have no argument against that. I’d just ask to not use the term “AI slop” when describing that objection, because I think it really muddies the waters and makes it extremely unclear what you’re actually objecting to. If your problem is one of ethics, say that. Don’t just re-use a term you heard elsewhere that’s tangentially related.
I’m tired boss
The snipe from the dev about removing the co-authorship is particularly shitty.
Devs of open source software need the thick skin to be able to say “This is how I’m going to handle things as long as I’m the lead, you don’t have to like it.” but this goes beyond it into an active “fuck you” to their users.
Edit: the second link has less charged discussion, but it’s still getting wrapped up in “anthropic bad” stuff that’s not actually related to code quality.
If the project is not the space for non-code quality concerns like Anthropic’s business dealings, then it is also not the place for one of the devs to try their personal social project of “seeing if contributors can differentiate between AI assisted commits and not”. Listing claude as a co-author where it was used serves a practical purpose of drawing extra eyes for review of relevant commits.
Listing claude as a co-author where it was used serves a practical purpose of drawing extra eyes for review of relevant commits.
This is the correct take and best course of action. What the dev did is not only shitty but also dumb.
I guess it prevents someone to fork the project and remove the slop.
Not entirely: you could revert it all the way back to before AI commits were possible, if you really wanted.
The way he worded it, it sounds like you just revert back to before the first “Claude co-authored” committ
Which he obfuscated by removing mentions in the commits. Stellar job, biggest Chad of the weak
Oh I thought he just removed it from future ones not past ones too
They did not edit past commits (that causes tons of problems). You can easily find the earliest commit that credits Anthropic. Example https://github.com/lutris/lutris/commit/6d5f18eb92e558ffda37781386812f1e9f1a2499
Well, that’s some small mercy at least. They definitely worded it in a way that implied they had edited past commits.
Turns out GloriousEggroll who is best known for Nobara and GE-Proton is defending this shit as well.
It’s really hard to argue against that final paragraph though for real. These are free time projects that people spend time on for the benefit of others. I dunno. Food for thought?
Actually you can refute that argument since the main dev defends Anthropic as a good guy compared to other AI companies. As we know Claude being used by Pentagon in the war with Iran. But shouldn’t use that, it will drag into unnecessary argument war, since they have set in mind to use AI generated-code.
And that leaves us with no choice but to use alternatives, as they have removed AI co-authorship.
It’s not a good situation right now, definitely. I do not condones using AI at all, but I definitely understand why people tend to resort to it if they have limited time and want to spend it on other things but still want to give their time and effort for free to the community.
Hiding it from the community though? Shitty behavior.
Yes the mere existence of slop machines is totally forcing those developers to shit all over their painstakingly crafted creations and deliberately hiding it. Really hard to argue with that.
If its such a bother to create something without supporting these fascist enabling and thieving cunts that are all AI companies, maybe they should consider not doing anything at all.
I don’t think we read the same final paragraph lol. But I agree with your sentiment to a certain degree, definitely.
This kind of thinking is what makes billionaires who back AI companies to keep increasing their investments in AI Capex, while leaving others with nothing but increasingly expensive parts and damaged environments.
Come on, is there anything that’s safe?!
Nobody has managed to stuff an LLMbecile into my fountain (or dip) pens yet. Not even into my ballpoint pens. Nor pencils, even the fancy schmancy “eternal” pencils I have.
Nobody has manged to jam an LLMbecile into any of my notebooks, neither the cheap-and-nasty ring-bound ones nor the home-made, home-bound ones I played with making for a while.
Nobody has found a way to cram an LLMbecile into my books, my playing cards, even my (tabletop) RPGs and board games.
Seems like loads of things are safe. Just not computers.
oh yes. i caught their comment on github about this already.
if i had the time i’d fork this and block AI contributions outright. slop certainly doesn’t belong in something that allows us linux users to play something that’s windows exclusive, cause lord knows what it’ll break.
“We live in a capitalist hellscape so why bother to struggle against it” isn’t a completely unreasonable take. Too bad, though.
Can’t win a fight if you don’t fight.
Also standing together is the only way to win such a fight as one against the hellscape we’re facing.
“Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced.” - James Baldwin
what a moronic take :(
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I don’t get it, why would you take a program (or ANYTHING) you created and let some AI shit all over it. I will never.
Am I allowed to have an unpopular narrative here?
There are levels of vibe coding, and it’s possible to use AI without vibe coding at all.
If you’re very targeted in what you’re having the AI do and you carefully review the code, it can be a great tool.
For example, “make this html grid sortable and add a download button that creates a csv file.” You know exactly what this does, it’s self contained, and it’s something you know can just be copied from stack overflow and applied to your code.
That works, and works well.
“Create an app that…” is vibe coded slop.
For example, “make this html grid sortable and add a download button that creates a csv file.” You know exactly what this does, it’s self contained, and it’s something you know can just be copied from stack overflow and applied to your code.
Even if this works, you’ll be stealing someone else’s code without authorship attribution for anything that’s a non-trivial algorithm.
Let me introduce you to Stackoverflow…or well, what it used to be.
Most devs are already doing that. This just saves them the time of doing it for themselves.
The copyright/license issues that come with it due to the current unregulated nature of ai are a completely different issue to the vibecode slop allegations.
no. it’s one aspect of many. Using slop is ethically wrong AND it produces shitty code with zero innovation and creating technical debt.
It can be useful when an experienced programmer knows how to guide it, although you have to be very intentional or you’ll end up wasting your time cleaning up after it.
That being said I think most people are upset that they’re no longer declaring which parts of code are AI assisted
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I’m going to assume from the part where they say they were at their lowest that the option the saw infront of them wasn’t “code with AI or not” but rather “burnout and don’t code, or code with AI”. And they chose to make progress using the crutch rather than stop. That’s my guess.
Humm, I mean, that happens to every creator. Writers block, burnout, etc. I guess it all comes down to what you think is important and your values are. I usually just walk away and do something else for a while, even a few weeks or months.
most writers don’t get growing stacks of bug reports. open source burnout is extremely common, unfortunately.
Like, I agree with you about open source burnout, but it feels weird to make it a dick measuring contest with writers, as a writer myself.
writers are arguably suffering more. not because llms can replace them at all to the degree they can junior programmers, but because the people making the decisions believe they can.
also, i wasn’t the one who brought it up :P
LLMs also aren’t good at replacing junior programmers, but the people in charge believe that they can do that too.
well they are, in that they produce bad code that has to be vetted thoroughly and they don’t know git.
You didn’t bring it up but you’re the one who implied it was a contest of who suffers more. Your comment was worded very much in a way that made it sound like they had it worse than writers, when the original commenter was just stating that all creatives experience burnout (not a comparison)
it wasn’t really about suffering more, the point was that it’s more out in the open and more directly connecting with people. i’m sure andy weir had the same issues with the martian since it was written in public.
Good point there, that sounds like it would be annoying and I’m sure I would want to fix the bugs as fast as possible too, but then you are using AI and introducing how many more new bugs, and ones that you will not easily be able to track down since you didn’t write the code, so then you are locked in to using AI. Personally I would rather have buggy software, nothing is perfect. Open source developers don’t owe anyone anything, so if people are being assholes about bugs that’s pretty lame.
yeah that’s what’s bugging me about all this. “remember the human” is even more important now.
regarding introducing new bugs, both high-profile cases from this past week have been seasoned developers of tools with extensive test suites that claimed to have tested everything thoroughly. when someone with 30 years of experience say they’ve tested something, i tend to trust that judgement. but on the other hand we’ve also seen the cognitive decline heavy llm usage seems to lead to…
Because you can do a lot more with it, have you ever tried coding? Before AI, if you didn’t know how to do something, it was “Ask a question on Stack Overflow, then get told this question had already been asked/answered, then get linked to a loosely related question”. Now I can ask AI all my random obscure questions.
I get being cautious around sensitive equipment like banking apps and government databases, but why would you hate LLM-generated code this much?
What I don’t get, is people’s inability to cope with their own limitations, or find their way out of problems without asking a magic box to do everything for them. Yes I have done some coding. Asking on Stack Overflow wasn’t even that bad, and eventually you could find an answer to almost anything there if you knew what you were looking for. Paging through programming books looking for answers was relatively a lot more difficult. However, both actually taught you things during the process, you made mistakes, learned, etc. The AI is teaching you nothing it’s just doing work for you. I don’t respect that, if you use it that’s you’re business but it’s not your code and not your product or whatever.
What I don’t get, is people’s inability to cope with their own limitations, or find their way out of problems without asking a magic box to do everything for them.
I don’t know who those people are. I coded for 20 years before LLMs, and I coped just fine.
The AI is teaching you nothing it’s just doing work for you.
Unless you ask it to explain things to you. Which is often required to fix the things that the AI can’t get right on its own.
if you use it that’s you’re business but it’s not your code
How is it not my code?
An LLM cannot ever “explain” anything to anyone, because it doesn’t know anything. How are people still trusting anything these fucking things say?
Right?? It’s bizarre to me that otherwise-smart-seeming people will think they can write “explain your reasoning” to the AI and it will explain its reasoning.
Yes, it will write some fluent response that reads as an explanation of its reasoning. But you may not even be talking to the same model that wrote the original text when you get the “explanation”.
Because it’s right more often than google? I swear you AI critics aren’t actually using AI.
Sounds like maybe you just don’t know how to use search engines correctly.
Agreed. Delusional mindsets stuck in 2023. I’ve never seen more entitled people before punching on FOSS devs and how they use their free time. “We need high quality, human coded FOSS programs with ZERO AI slop in them!” “Why no, I’ve never contributed to an open source project, nor do I know how to code, why do you ask?”
Forks exist, get over it.
I know you don’t actually believe this because if a FOSS dev were in the Epstein files you know you wouldn’t be able to crow about how the poor guy is just donating his precious free time without, rightfully, being absolutely dogpiled by everyone around you.
How is it not my code?
In case you missed it, courts have ruled that works produced by AI cannot have copyright, because it was not made by a human.
You can make use of AI-generated code, but you didn’t write it. Since you can’t copyright it, it’s not your code - it’s our code, comrade.
In case you missed it, courts have ruled that works produced by AI cannot have copyright, because it was not made by a human.
Courts have ruled that art that was 100% generated by AI cannot be copyrighted by the AI, because the AI is not a human person.
The same courts have also ruled that works that were assisted by AI but created by a human can be copyrighted by that human.
So, can you claim copyright in an AI-generated work in Canada? As of 2025, the safest answer is: only if a human author contributed substantial creative effort to the final work. There needs to be some human “skill and judgment” or creative spark for a work to be protected.
If the AI was just a tool in your hands, for instance, you used AI to enhance or assemble content that you guided then your contributions are protected and you are the author of the overall work. But if an AI truly created the material with you providing little more than a prompt or idea, the law may treat that output as having no human author, and thus no copyright.
Thankfully real life is far more nuanced than “fuck ai” allows.
Now I can ask AI all my random obscure questions.
And get the wrong answer. But you don’t know it’s wrong, because you’re not already an expert on the obscure subject.
Before AI, yes you had to learn how to do things. Why is that bad?
And get the wrong answer.
No, it’s right more often than google was.
If it was the wrong answer, the projects wouldn’t work, now would they?
Before AI, yes you had to learn how to do things. Why is that bad?
I’m still learning how to do things, just a lot faster, thanks to this helpful tool. Why is that bad?
Because you are outsourcing your critical thinking. To a black box that is not capable of thinking
I asked plenty of questions on SO and never had a bad experience. But I put quite a bit of work in. You couldn’t ask “how do i sort a list in JAVA” and get answers, you had to ask “here’s some code I’m writing <working example> and it does <x> but I think it should do <y> because <z> what’s going on?” and people gave some really nice answers. (Or you could put “how do sort list java” into web search and get a fine answer to that; it’s not like SO was the only place to ask low-effort questions.)
One of the bad things with AI is it’s soooo helpful that when I get questions now it’s like “please create a DNS entry for foo.bar.baz” and they’re asking because the AI got completely stuck on something simple (like making a request to api.github.com) and wandered up and down and eventually decided on some nonsense course of action and the developer has given up on thinking about anything.
Edit: new development. Learning Epic launcher and it’s better so far. Have removed Lutris. Let me pretend this is a win for a little while before telling me that it is equally fucked, thanks
My regret is I have but one upvote to give.
Can a motherfucker get a break, PLEASE.
I use Lutris for games that don’t work in Steam/Proton, usually an older game like Black and White 2 or the old Sims 2 game (before the updated version came out). Why is everything I like turning to shit! :(
Hell, it’s not even everything I like is turning to shit. Things I already hate are getting worse as well. It’s fucking everything. Either AI or ads. Shareholders above all.
Try Heroic or Bottles. I am personally a fan of Bottles.
I used lutris for a while but jumped ship to bottles as soon as it existed as I found the UI more tolerable even though it has that gnome app look I don’t really like. Then I switched to heroic which can also handle semi manual wine prefixes with whatever wine or proton variant I want or need, without all the extraneous handholding or terminology renaming.
Some comtributors to vim started using AI too btw. I may learn kate. Hell there is an evil mode in emacs.
I’ve been trying to get into helix, maybe that’s a new hope?
Me as well! The tutor was really useful. I use a lot of multiple cursors, so I hope I can adapt well to it
That’s funny, not long ago people were giving me shit for saying Lutris is a confusing, unintuitive mess.
Well I guess now we know why.
No, it was a confusing intuitive mess with tons of broken toggles for legacy cruft long, long before AI code was a thing.
True, but if AI is doing much of the coding, that means the devs have been out to lunch for a while, aka, not actually trying to do the much needed overhaul to the frontend UX.
Yes, they were out to lunch before they used AI. Sounds like Lutris was always slop, it’s too bad there isn’t a better alternative.
Uh, steam 3rd party, bottles, heroic.
I never liked it. Heroic is best.
Heroic is also doing some sloppy things, though.
Oof. Got any alternatives for accessing GOG and Epic (mainly free offerings and Genshin Impact) on Linux?
Wait you want to dismiss a product because it does AI code revisions? As in, they code, the AI writes comments for them to review, they decide wether to implement the changes themselves or not, and go with their day. That’s unacceptable?
That’s okay, actually. I was too emotionally drained by the AI argument to actually open the link yesterday.
but how bad is that really, compared to others
I have not used Heroic much at all, but from what I have used it for… yeah, much more intuitive user interface for the vast majority of the most common use cases.
Heroic is great for newer stuff but I still have Lutris because some older games work there out of the nox just fine while they don’t even launch in Heroic.
Heroic is best for PC games from GOG, and Epic and Amazon I suppose. Got quite a stock of free games from Epic that I’ve never bothered to start up.
Lutris did fill a hole for ‘emulation’, all your console games, dosbox &c all in one place. Heroic doesn’t really do that. Looks like it’s time to find another tool that will…
Retroarch is far better for all emulation, imo. it’s fricken amazing.
Retroarch, Retrodeck, EmuDeck…
Unfortunately, it is the only way my SO got paint tool SAI 2 with pen pressure working under Linux…
Well that certainly is an edge case scenario.
I would hazard a guess that it … should be possible to get it working through another way of setting up WINE/Proton, if you can get all the dependencies and specifics figured out… maybe via Bottles?
But, figuring all that out would be a hassle, and may just end up not working.
I mean, if it works, it works.
The closest thing to that that I can say is that via RetroDeck on Bazzite, on a Steam Deck, I literally accidentally discovered that the touch screen controls for that worked just fine, without me doing anything beyond normal RetroDeck setup.
Just got annoyed, assuming that I couldn’t use a DS/3DS second screen as a touch screen, ‘Boy I sure with is could just-’ … and then I poked it, and then it worked.
But thats probably a different ballpark than getting an windows program to play nice with a linux touch/pad/stylus.
I always found Lutris to be troublesome at best. Always had better luck with Bottles.
From reading the posted threads the Lutris devs have even bigger red flags, the AI usage seems like just another symptom of their total disdain for the users of their program.
It’s just painful to use. Why are commonly used Wine/Proton features like DLL overrides so unnecessarily poorly done in the UI? I may as well write the command line switches myself.
For real, strycore’s responses to github issues seem to mostly be laughing at the posters, calling them idiots, and at best eventually giving in and fixing an issue after another maintainer acknowledges a bug as valid. Glad I only use Lutris for Battle.net, and definitely looking for alternatives.
I just added Battle.net as a “non-steam game” in steam and run it from there under Proton. That seemed to give me the least amount of trouble. It does come with the downside of steam always reporting “Crozekiel is currently playing Battle.net Launcher” unless I go invisible on the friend’s list.
Work well in porn games. Never managed to make custom maid 3d run on bottle. But it run on lutris
heroic launcher works pretty well too
Truly but the power in lutris is horny and custom install script some guys did crazy stuff. I hioe there is an alternative of these shared scripts.
Can I has list of porn games, pretty please?
Try f95-zone for all your porn game needs.
Honey sélect 2, custome maid 3d and koikchi School thingy work in lutris.
Danke!
You know what’s great about open source software?
You can fork it and turn it into your own project. With black jack and hookers.
Someone can, I certainly don’t have the time or the talent to do so. Thanks for your efforts people who do this stuff.
Have you tried using AI
I wonder how long models will stay stable if the code they’re trained on becomes increasingly ai generated
Dam. Glad I never really used lutris lol
I tried using it. Saw something i wanted to try and implement. Made one test PR that implemented (badly) my desired feature clearly stating that it was a PR looking for feedback and I got told off by the maker. I’m just a bit sad about the other maintainer that actually took some time to engage with me
when I played WoW/Blizzard games that was pretty much the only time I ever used it or maybe when sailing the high seas for stuff.
I should probably just remove it.
I just run battle.net launcher through steam instead
You’re delusional if you believe those proprietary apps don’t have AI generated code in them
does that work with external addons (e.g. hearthstone decktracker or iunno WoW plugins?)
I use curse forge’s alpha AppImage to run wow mods. Just had to point it to the right directory iirc. Not sure about anything else
Diablo 3 was basically my one use for it years ago lol. I eventually just added it to steam as a non-steam game, cause lutris was giving me a lot of issues :p.
Other than that I only tried lutris 2 other times, once to try and run a game that didn’t work in steam (didn’t work in lutris either), and once for a small indie thing from itch.io :3
I remember using it once, and I never got it to run with the GOG installers I had. It either tried to get the game from valve’s drm store, or attempted to download the game again from GOG. To be fair, it was a couple years back but it looked like it was a fundamental part of its design.
It was suggested to me to run a graphics program I used on windows called Mosh Pro, unfortunately I didn’t get to try it yet and now it looks like I probably won’t, ope.
Can it even still call itself open source when it is entirely unclear where the AI they used took the code from, and under what license it was published?
What even does using AI regurgitated code do to the license of a software product? Because basically what they are doing is exactly the same as going through shit tons of comments on stackoverflow and copying them verbatim into the code base. Without attribution or regard to licensing.
What shit.
Supreme Court recently declined to take a major copyright case involving AI, which meant the previous court’s ruling still stands - ai generated content can’t be copyrighted. Tho I haven’t looked at the details, so I’m not sure if that applies to code or not.
It will not surprize me if everyone currently depending on these systems is going to be in for a very rude awakening.
